Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 20

 

De Maria

2 days ago

BL,

Sounds as though you're getting closer to the truth. Now turn to the Church, which Jesus Christ established, the Catholic Church and you shall be saved. Eph 3:10; Matt 18:17; 1 Tim 3:15

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 19

 

De Maria

21 hours ago

JB-@De Maria "There is none holy as the Lord; for there is none beside Thee.'' -1Samuel 2:2-4 JM-Are you saying that Scripture is wrong? 1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. JB-"But this one after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God." - Hebrews 10:12 DM-That's true. And we are His body. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: .... JB-"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (to worship or pray to). No one prayed to the cherubs. No one prayed to the brazen serpent. They just had to look upon it.) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or the earth below." Exodus 20:4 DM-I see. You're hung up with the word, "pray". The Catholic Church is ancient. It is the Church Jesus Christ established and it understands the word, pray, the way Scripture uses it. Now, let me show you: Genesis 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee. Is Abram here, worshipping his sister, Sarai? Or is he asking her for a favor? In the same way, when we pray to the Saints, we don't worship them. We merely ask our fellow citizens in the City of God, to interecede on our behalf. JB-Hide yor Mary statues and stp kneeling before them. In fact stop praying to Mary and pray to Jesus who hears your prayers and can actually do something for you. DM-That just shows your lack of faith. See, Jesus said: John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Thus, Mary and all the Saints are still alive in Christ. And therefore, they will intercede when we ask them to do so (pray). Hebrews 12:22-24 King James Version 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. JB-Do Catholics check with their Catholic neighbors to see what sort of works they are doing to get to heaven and if they've done enough each week? Do they keep a list to show the Lord how they earned salvation? DM-No. We hope in Christ. 1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Why do you ask? Do you check with your Protestant neighbors to judge if you have enough faith to be saved? If you do, you're doing it wrong. 1 Samuel 16:7.... for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. JB- Over and out. DM-Good night.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 18

 

De Maria

22 hours ago (edited)

 JB-@De Maria The Catholic Church took out the second commandment because it dealt with idol worship. Gee, I wonder why? DM-No, John, she didn't. The Catholic Church enumerates the Commandments correctly. Now, let's read that Commandment and see how the Protestants mess it up. Here's the Catholic enumeration. 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve. 2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.... Here's the Protestant. 1. You shall have no other gods but me. 2. You shall not make unto you any graven images.... Notice how the Protestant #2 immediately contradicts the Word of God, because God. Because God Himself commands the Israelites to make a graven image. Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. But the Catholic Church understands that images are fine, as long as you don't worship them. Otherwise, if you can't have images, then get rid of your television, your camera, your pictures and all other things that make images and toss the images in your home, car, wallet and anywhere else. JB-"Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood."- Revelation 1:5 It's the blood of Jesus that wipes away all our sins, not our works. DM-True. We get the Blood of Christ from the Eucharist. Where do you get it since you reject and deny the Eucharist? 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And remember, without good works you will not receive the Blood of Christ: Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. JB-Those of us who are saved are in the arms of the Lord forever. Hallelujah! DM-As long as you don't fall away: 1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. JB-Good luck with working for your salvation. DM-Good luck judging yourself saved. I will continue to obey the Word of God and work for my salvation as God demands: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. I think salvation is worth the effort. 2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. JB-The Jesus I worship paid for my salvation in full. DM-The Jesus I worship requires me to imitate Him and become truly holy, as He is holy. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Hebrews 12:14 King James Version 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 17

 

De Maria

23 hours ago

 JB-@De Maria There is no one on earth who has ever kept the commandments of God DM-when the rich young man said he had kept the Commandments, Jesus didn't say he was lying. JB-because there are a lot more than 10. DM-Jesus reduced them to two. JB-We can't keep them all because we are sinners. Try as you may, you are going to sin. You are going to be out of the will of God sometime. DM-have you ever heard of confession and repentance? Do you believe that God is unmerciful and unforgiving? JB- That's why we pray to Jesus (not priests) to forgive us our sins. DM-Have you ever read this verse? 2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. Christ died for sinners. Let's break that down. 1. God has given men the word of reconciliation. 2. Those men beseech you as though God were beseeching you. In other words, they represent God to you. 3. Those men also pray to God for you IN CHRIST'S STEAD. In other words, in the person of Christ. That's all Catholic Teaching. Our priests all represent God for us. Now, lets look at another. Hebrews 13:17Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. 1. The Word of God is telling us to obey men. Which men? Obviously, our priests since they are our rulers in the Church. 2. We must submit to these men freely and obediently. 3. They watch over our souls. 4. And they make an account to God for our souls. Do you have anyone in your religion whom you recognize with such authority before God? If not, then you're not in Christ's Church. JB-Not for those who overcome all sin because those people do not exist. No wonder Catholics don't know if they are going to Heaven or not. I feel sorry for them. DM-I know I've already proved this objection wrong. So, that means you're not reading what I'm saying. First of all, Scripture tells us not judge ourselves saved and to leave judgment to God: 1 Corinthians 4:2-4 King James Version 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Secondly, it is God who judges whether a man has overcome all sin. Not you. Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. JB- Read the Bible verses that assure all those who put their faith in Jesus Christ will be saved...now and forever. Amen. DM-Lol! I read all of Scripture and put all the verses into context. You pick some and discard others. Yes, God assures us salvation, IF we keep the commandments. Not if we don't. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Sin unto death. Obedience unto righteousness. Faith alone is dead.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 16

 De Maria

1 day ago

 JB-@De Maria Roman Catholics have never understood salvation. It is a gift of God. Do you understand what a gift is? DM-Yeah, I do. I don't think you do. Now, let's say that your child is in school and in order to encourage him to make good grades, you freely make this promise. If you get all A's, I will buy you a new bicycle. Now, the child gets all A's. Did he, therefore, earn the bike? No, he didn't. Here's the proof. He goes to the store and hands his report card to the attendant and says, "my dad promised me a new bike if I got all A's." What will the attendant say? "Your dad may have promised you, but I didn't. Get your dad or get the money and we can do business." The child did not earn nor merit the bike in anyway, EXCEPT ONE. In your eyes. He merited the bike because you promised it and you obligated YOURSELF. He didn't hold a gun to your head and say, "Buy me the bike." Its a free gift, freely offered, freely given. Now, let's read Scripture. Hebrews 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: What oath did God make? He offered salvation to those who keep His Commandments. Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. He offered salvation to those who obey His Son. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; JB-The verses you quote hAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. CHRIST KEEPS US, NOT WORKS. WORKS IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DO AFTER SALVATION. Jesus didn't give any caveats to salvation. DM-Actually, He did. Several times. You just don't want to believe His Word. Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. Matt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. and there's many other admonitions which He gave us to Teach us that we must do the will of God if we want to be saved.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 15

 De Maria

1 day ago

GR-@De Maria you're engaging in the word-concept fallacy which is that if the exact word isn't there the concept isn't there. DM-I don't think so. You see, the word and concept are both there. Let's look at James 2:24. James 2:24 King James Version 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

What word are you looking for? Faith? There it is. "Faith only" is exactly the same as "faith alone". The word is there, agreed? So is the word, justified. So, let's break it down. By works a man is justified- So, works are necessary for justification. not by faith only.- Not what? From the context, not justified by faith only. Thus, faith requires something else in order for a man to be justified. Obviously, from this one verse, one can see that it is works which are necessary for said justification. Is this consistent with the Teaching of St. Paul? Yes. St. Paul says in many places: Romans 2:13 King James Version 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 11: 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. GR-Here's one way you can tell justification by faith alone is taught. Read through Romans 1-5. Do you get the anticipated objection of Romans 6:1? DM-You'll have to explain your logic. Here's what I see in Romans 6: 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. If you, being saved, yield to sin, you will be condemned. But if you yield yourselves to God, you will be saved. It is more clearly taught in another verse by St. Paul. Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 14

 De Maria

1 day ago

JB-@De Maria If works saved you God the Father didn't have to send His son to shed his blood on the cross for our sins. DM-works don't save you. But without works, you won't be saved. Rom 2:13 JB-All He had to say was keep doing good works. DM-He does. Frequently. Scripture is peppered with the command to do good works. Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. JB-Good works should follow salvation but good works can't save anyone. DM-Good works precede salvation. For example, repentance is a good work. Without repenting, one can not be saved. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. JB-As was pointed out in the Old Testament, they needed a blood sacrifice. Those lamb sacrifices were a premonition of the coming Saviour and Jesus sacrifice. DM-True. Therefore we have the Eucharist. JB-John the Baptist knew what he was saying when he said "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." - John 1:9 DM-True. That's why we partake of the Passover of Christ which is only given to you in the Catholic Mass. The Eucharist which is the Body and Blood of the Lamb of God. JB-Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. DM-True. That is why we partake of the Sacrifice of the Cross when we partake of the Body and Blood of Christ in the Holy Eucharist: 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? JB-Jesus said "It is finished." To add works as part of salvation is to call Jesus a liar. DM-On the contrary, to reject works as part of salvation is to call Jesus a liar: Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. JB-No wonder Catholics don't know for sure if they are saved or not or going to Heaven or not. DM-Let's compare what you just said to Scripture. You judge yourself saved. What does Scripture say: 1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. You claim that we should judge ourselves. What does Scripture say: 1 Corinthians 4:2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore, the Catholic attitude to allow Christ to judge our salvation and live in Holy Fear is the proper attitude in accordance with Scripture: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. JB-That's why the Roman Catholic Church invented pugatory because they don't understand or believe Christ's completed work on the cross. DM-It is Jesus Christ who taught Purgatory and therefore the Church continues to do so. And therefore She also included the Teaching in Scripture: 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 King James Version 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.