On the Beggars all site I'm having this exchange with Mr. James Swan:
The Perspicuity of 2 Maccabees 12 on Purgatory?
In this discussion over whether Purgatory is in Scripture, you seem to require an explicit text.
Yet, when asked to provide an explicit text for Sola Scriptura, you and others on this blog, denied that explicit texts were necessary to prove doctrine.
Is there an explanation for this seeming discrepancy?
Sincerely,
De Maria
Yet, when asked to provide an explicit text for Sola Scriptura, you and others on this blog, denied that explicit texts were necessary to prove doctrine.
Is there an explanation for this seeming discrepancy?
Sincerely,
De Maria
James Swan said...
In this discussion over whether Purgatory is in Scripture, you seem to require an explicit text. Yet, when asked to provide an explicit text for Sola Scriptura, you and others on this blog, denied that explicit texts were necessary to prove doctrine. Is there an explanation for this seeming discrepancy?
Mr. De Maria,
There is indeed an explanation, but based on your lengthy discussion on the other blog entry, what I'm about to write will probably fall on your deaf ears.
While both sola scriptura and purgatory are doctrinal issues, sola scriptura is also an authority issue and an epistemological issue. Purgatory remains simply a doctrinal issue.
Unlike PBJ, I'm far less tolerant of my sparse free time being consumed by any barrage of comments you might now launch against this clear statement. If you respond with any sort of lengthy obfuscation, don't be at all surprised if whatever pearls of wisdom you put forth don't appear on this blog.
James
Mr. De Maria,
There is indeed an explanation, but based on your lengthy discussion on the other blog entry, what I'm about to write will probably fall on your deaf ears.
While both sola scriptura and purgatory are doctrinal issues, sola scriptura is also an authority issue and an epistemological issue. Purgatory remains simply a doctrinal issue.
Unlike PBJ, I'm far less tolerant of my sparse free time being consumed by any barrage of comments you might now launch against this clear statement. If you respond with any sort of lengthy obfuscation, don't be at all surprised if whatever pearls of wisdom you put forth don't appear on this blog.
James
I have responded to Mr. Swan. But I didn't keep a copy of my response and apparently, he doesn't have time to review it. However, my question is this:
Where is it written, that doctrines which have to do with issues of authority, such as Sola Scriptura, do not need explicit documentation in Scripture? Whereas, doctrines, which are not issues of authority, such as Purgatory require more explicit explanations in Scripture?
I think that is an important issue. I'm of the opinion that if Protestants expect explicit texts in support of Catholic doctrines, they should be able to provide explicit texts in support of their own.
What do you think?
Sincerely,
De Maria
I definitely agree with your two points in this brief post. It surprised me, though, that you didn't mention what seems pretty clear to me: if sola scriptura is not only a doctrinal but also an issue of authority and epistemology, then it needs more justification than he's willing to accept for it. Those, after all, are the issues that ground everything else, and one should not be more generous about one's principles than he is with everything else that hinges on them!
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything you've said, but I don't understand this:
Delete"and one should not be more generous about one's principles than he is with everything else that hinges on them!"
What do you mean by that?
That's a fair question! My point was that if you're going to demand a certain amount of proof for some claim that isn't foundational, you should demand at least as much when you are dealing with a foundational claim.
DeleteJames Swan had that problem here. He wants an explicit reference to Purgatory in Scripture, but is willing to accept Sola Scriptura because "it's implied." To be consistent, he has to put Sola Scriptura to the same test and find where the Bible teaches it explicitly. Or, he could just accept Purgatory because it is also implied, and with at least as much Scriptural support as his founding doctrine.
I hope that helps.
Yes. Thanks.
DeleteWell, I didn't mention that because, at the time, I didn't think of it.
You are right. If he claims that Sola Scriptura is a different type of doctrine with authority aspects and epistemological aspects, then, he needs to produce more Scriptural proof. Not less.
After all, SS does not say, "everything must be explicit in Scripture, except those thing dealing with authority and epistemology." Or if it does, then someone needs to produce that doctrine. And I insist, it must be explicitly stated in Scripture.
Thanks! Good point!