... to explain justification.
Objection: So then, what are the kinds of works that are the "effect" rather than the "Cause" of one's salvation?In my opinion, works are neither the effect nor the cause of one's salvation.
Quote:What does only a Christian do that is a work that an Atheist wouldn't ?
I don't understand the question. In whom does an Atheist show faith?
Or another example, "the Sun is rising". The Sun doesn't rise, the earth rotates so that the Sun appears to rise. But its easier to say, "justified by works" and "Scripture is inspired" and "the Sun is rising" than to give the detailed explanation.
Anyway, I believe justification is by "faith and works" which is the Catholic Teaching. That is, as I said, so to speak. Because the Church also teaches that neither faith nor works merit the grace of justification (Trent VI, CHAPTER VIII).
I know that is confusing because the statements seem to contradict each other. Let me give you an example which I hope will clarify the matter.
Say for instance, that Bill Gates is in an emergency. He can't find a chauffer and has jumped in his vehicle and started driving because he has a deal to make which will make him the richest man ever in the world. He is driving through your neighborhood and has a blow out. You are standing there when this happens. He jumps out of the car and says, "hey, can you change a tire?" You say, "sure". He says, "I'll pay you a million dollars to change that tire. I'd do it myself but I have to make three phone calls right now!"
Obviously, you're a good samaritan, you would have done it for nothing. But Bill Gates has set the value. Your work is now worth $1,000,000.
So, in this example, Bill Gates is God. And changing the tire is "faith and good works". And the $1,000,000 is the gift of justification.
Changing a tire is worth nothing in dollars and cents. Therefore, the one million dollars amounts to a gift. Changing the tire did not "merit" or "earn" the gift. The gift was given "voluntarily" by Gates. He could pay $10 and be equally righteous. He need pay nothing at all, actually. Nor do you have to change the tire.
Our faith and good works amount to nothing in comparison to the gift of God's sanctifying grace washing us of our sins. God doesn't have to give us anything at all for doing that which makes sense for us to do anyway. Ask any atheist. The 10 Commandments are common sense practices which everyone should follow. But God gives us the bonus of washing our sins and a participation in eternal, if we continue to the end.
So, faith and good works are necessary, without those, we won't get the gift. Its not a matter of earning, nor of causing. If we were causing or earning, we would get nothing but a pat on the back.
Ok, so, those are the metaphors. Now, lets turn to Scripture. The Old Testament says:
Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
God shows mercy upon those who keep His Commandments. We don't save ourselves by keeping the Commandments. God saves us.
Again, that's like the folks who are on a shipwreck and put themselves in a positiion to be rescued. The rescuers will rescue them. But they must put themselves in a position to be rescued.
Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Only those who first keep the Law of God, the Commandments, will be rescued. Not those who don't:
Revelation 22:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Finally, there are the Sacraments. The difference between Christians and Jews and others is that they must await the Judgement before they will enter heaven. However, Christians walk with the Saints while they are in this life:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
And they do so by the Sacraments:
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Sincerely,
De Maria
Quote:Oh! I think the reason I don't understand the question is because I don't subscribe to that teaching.
How do we determine a Christian who is showing the "effect" versus one who is not? Do such specifics matter to this view? If an Atheist or Buddhist is capable of doing these "works" which one may claim is the "effect" of being saved, does that render their argument void?
Quote:St. James is speaking shorthand. In other words, is the same as when we say, "Scripture is inspired." Scripture isn't and never was inspired. Holy men were inspired to write Scripture.
Such snags are not any problem at all to the face-value reading of James in that works are the cause rather than the effect.
Or another example, "the Sun is rising". The Sun doesn't rise, the earth rotates so that the Sun appears to rise. But its easier to say, "justified by works" and "Scripture is inspired" and "the Sun is rising" than to give the detailed explanation.
Quote:I don't know to what you refer.
So what are these "works" specifically that only Christians can do and no one else.
Quote:Perhaps that is a reference to the works of God, the Sacraments, before which we present ourselves in an attitude of faith. But I'm simply guessing.
I see this argument about the works being the effect rather than the cause so often all over the place, and 9/10 when asked what these works are specifically, the conversation ends or dodges and dives commence.
Anyway, I believe justification is by "faith and works" which is the Catholic Teaching. That is, as I said, so to speak. Because the Church also teaches that neither faith nor works merit the grace of justification (Trent VI, CHAPTER VIII).
I know that is confusing because the statements seem to contradict each other. Let me give you an example which I hope will clarify the matter.
Say for instance, that Bill Gates is in an emergency. He can't find a chauffer and has jumped in his vehicle and started driving because he has a deal to make which will make him the richest man ever in the world. He is driving through your neighborhood and has a blow out. You are standing there when this happens. He jumps out of the car and says, "hey, can you change a tire?" You say, "sure". He says, "I'll pay you a million dollars to change that tire. I'd do it myself but I have to make three phone calls right now!"
Obviously, you're a good samaritan, you would have done it for nothing. But Bill Gates has set the value. Your work is now worth $1,000,000.
So, in this example, Bill Gates is God. And changing the tire is "faith and good works". And the $1,000,000 is the gift of justification.
Changing a tire is worth nothing in dollars and cents. Therefore, the one million dollars amounts to a gift. Changing the tire did not "merit" or "earn" the gift. The gift was given "voluntarily" by Gates. He could pay $10 and be equally righteous. He need pay nothing at all, actually. Nor do you have to change the tire.
Our faith and good works amount to nothing in comparison to the gift of God's sanctifying grace washing us of our sins. God doesn't have to give us anything at all for doing that which makes sense for us to do anyway. Ask any atheist. The 10 Commandments are common sense practices which everyone should follow. But God gives us the bonus of washing our sins and a participation in eternal, if we continue to the end.
So, faith and good works are necessary, without those, we won't get the gift. Its not a matter of earning, nor of causing. If we were causing or earning, we would get nothing but a pat on the back.
Ok, so, those are the metaphors. Now, lets turn to Scripture. The Old Testament says:
Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
God shows mercy upon those who keep His Commandments. We don't save ourselves by keeping the Commandments. God saves us.
Again, that's like the folks who are on a shipwreck and put themselves in a positiion to be rescued. The rescuers will rescue them. But they must put themselves in a position to be rescued.
Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Only those who first keep the Law of God, the Commandments, will be rescued. Not those who don't:
Revelation 22:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Finally, there are the Sacraments. The difference between Christians and Jews and others is that they must await the Judgement before they will enter heaven. However, Christians walk with the Saints while they are in this life:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
And they do so by the Sacraments:
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Sincerely,
De Maria
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