Hi Lutero,
Lets agree on some definitions, ok?
Ok.
We also refer to the post http://www.catholic-convert.com/2011/10/18/do-catholics-worship-mary-3/ ok?
Ok.
Definitions from http://www.dictionary.com:
HONOR = high respect.
PRAY= to make earnest petition to (a person).
WORSHIP = reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
HONOR = high respect.
PRAY= to make earnest petition to (a person).
WORSHIP = reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
Steve mentions “honor’ (which means respect) in his article is what the Catholic Church teaches.
Correct.
But when Catholics make the pilgrimages to Marian shrines, it is said as paying homage to the Blessed Virgin which also amounts to Worship as per the said definitions.
1st. You didn’t include a definition for homage. Here’s the definition from Dictionary.com:
Homage – respect or reverence paid or rendered
Homage – respect or reverence paid or rendered
That says nothing about worship.
2nd. Homage and respect directed to God, is worship. Homage can be directed to God or man. When it is directed to God, it is part of man’s worship of God. When it is directed to man, it is part of man’s respect for that man.
Therefore homage is also Honor and Worship meaning the same thing.
Not the same thing. Have you ever heard of context? We can honor dogs. Dogs have done heroic things in the service of man. Yet that is not worship. I can pay homage to a President or other important person. That is not worship. I like the Merriam Webster online because it shows examples of how to use a word. Here are the examples it gives:
Examples of HOMAGE
Examples of HOMAGE
1. Her book is a homage to her favorite city.
2. the poem is a moving homage to all who have served in our nation’s armed services
2. the poem is a moving homage to all who have served in our nation’s armed services
Garlanding idol statues and chanting prayers is also Worship and Honor as per the definitions.
1. We have no idols in the Catholic Church.
2. Putting garlands on images of famous and beloved persons, such as the Saints or war heroes, simply honors the person. The image knows nothing and feels nothing. It is like the images you carry in your wallet or keep on your cell phone. They are reminders of they whom we love.
2. Putting garlands on images of famous and beloved persons, such as the Saints or war heroes, simply honors the person. The image knows nothing and feels nothing. It is like the images you carry in your wallet or keep on your cell phone. They are reminders of they whom we love.
Catholics petition “prayers” to Mary/Saints .. In scripture, Prayer was undoubtedly a part of the pubic worship in the first-century church and Prayer offered to God in accordance with His will is one of the most common expressions of worship in the church that Jesus built. I am reminded of Acts 2:42, where we read, “And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.”
1. Apostles doctrine, fellowship and breaking bread, that is a description of the Mass.
2. By first century, you mean, in Scripture. There are many examples of prayer to Saints in Scripture, if you simply look for them:
Psalm 103:20
Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
2. By first century, you mean, in Scripture. There are many examples of prayer to Saints in Scripture, if you simply look for them:
Psalm 103:20
Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Psalm 148:2
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
In prayer we give voice to our reverence for God, and that is in a large measure what worship is all about. By taking our petitions and thanksgiving to God, we are freely admitting and acknowledging our absolute dependence upon, and trust in, Him. Paul exhorted the early Christians to fill their lives with prayer. Remember 1 Thessalonians 5:17, “Pray without ceasing.”
Yeah. Remember 1 Thess 5:24? How about 1 Timothy 2:1? Do you think that Christians who die and yet live in Christ, will stop praying simply because they are dead? Do you not believe what Christ said (Luke 20:38; John 11:25)?
In petitioning prayers or paying homage to Mary amounts to worship and deification, because it wasn’t case in the first century Church.
Yes, it was. Luke 1:26-30; 41; 42 all pay great homage to Mary because this is the Word of God. And God commands us to continue paying great homage to Mary; Luke 1:48.
In fact Jesus recommended his disciples to pray to the Father in his name so we have to be obedient what Jesus commands if we are to brag that it was the Catholic Jesus established .
We do pray to the Father in Jesus name. But we also ask others to pray for us in obedience to Scripture:
Job 42:8; James 5:16-17
Job 42:8; James 5:16-17
Sincerely,
De Maria
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