Christians Truth said...My reply: Protestants have their beliefs in total depravity, which is not in the Bible.
Agreed.
We are to have Jesus’ teachings and obey them before we are saved, see John 14:23; and Acts 5:32.
Still agree.
However, we must continue to do right and not sin after Jesus saves us, see Romans 6:1-2; and 1 John 5:18. We cannot stop sinning on our own, see Isaiah 64:5; and Romans 7:19. We cannot stop sinning unless we have the Holy Spirit, and we are to stop sinning not on our own but by the Holy Spirit, see Galatians 3:3, Romans 8:14.
All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching.
Thanks for responding. All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching as far as Justification by faith and works goes. However there is more if you would like to continue the discussion we need to move into the Sacraments:
YOU and the Jews and all non-Catholics will only be saved to the extent that you keep the Commandments. What I mean there, is that if you intend to keep the Commandments because of your love for God, you will not keep them perfectly, but you will be saved, as by fire. See 1 Cor 3:10-15. That means you will wait until Judgement Day before you enter heaven, if you are saved.
But, if you deny that keeping the Commandments is necessary for your salvation, that is an indicator that you don't love God and you will not be saved, whether you are Jew, Gentile, Catholic, Protestant or anyone else.
However, Catholics (and the Orthodox) who love God and keep the Commandments are also privileged to receive the Sacraments, by which GOD SAVES US RIGHT HERE AND NOW. Those who receive the Sacraments walk with the Saints:
Hebrews 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Is it true out of catholics no body will enter heaven straight away when they die ??
ReplyDeleteHow to justify Rev 7:9 ?
Sincerely, Anna.
Anna Vinsensia KoliApril 28, 2013 at 6:34 PM
ReplyDeleteIs it true out of catholics no body will enter heaven straight away when they die ??
No. Those who die in a state of grace will immediately go to heaven. However, on the Day of Judgment, everyone's works will be tested in Purgatory. As the Scripture says:
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
King James Version (KJV)
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
These are the ones who will NOT remain in Purgatory but have gone straight to heaven. As the Scripture says elsewhere:
Rev 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
These are the ones who will remain in Purgatory for a while.
cont'd
How to justify Rev 7:9 ?
ReplyDeleteHm? Well, lets see. First, we must understand that Revelations is written in prophetic language which is very symbolic. Therefore, we must be very thoughtful to understand what these symbols represent.
So, the number 144,000 appears several times in Revelations and St. John tells us who these men are.
These are the 144,000 that washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb:
Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Who are they which wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb? Those who are baptized and those who eat of the Body and Blood of Christ. Washing our robes in the blood of the Lamb is to receive the Sacraments.
Further, these were virgins which follow Christ:
Revelation 14
King James Version (KJV)
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads…..4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Now, since they are celibate, there is one group of men who fits that description. Roman Catholic Priests.
Notice, 12x12,000 =144,000
In Scripture, the number 12 does not mean a literal 12 but is the number of perfection. Therefore, the number 144,000 is simply an exceedingly great number which can't be counted.
Revelation 7
King James Version (KJV)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Notice that there were some sealed from the 12 tribes. What happened to the 12 tribes, do you remember?
By the end of the Old Testament, right before Jesus came, the 10 tribes of the north were lost. They became Gentiles. The only tribes left with any significant representation were the tribe of Judah and the Levites.
But now, God has gathered the 12 tribes from out of the world and they are the first fruits who gave themselves to God. These are they who, went straight to heaven and when they stood before the Just Judge, past the test of their works without ever needing to be purged of their sins, because they are righteous.
Let me know if I understood your question and answered it accordingly.
Sincerely, Anna.
Your servant in Christ,
De Maria
First, I need to apologize because I was asking questions to you without stating where did it cone from.
ReplyDeleteSecond, my English is so bad, I am often founded it was so hard to get a proper word to write.
I asked those questions because you said " you & the Jews & all non Catholics will only be saved to the extend you keep the commandments. What I mean there, is that if you intend to keep the commandments because of your love for God, you will nit keep them perfectly, but you will be saved as by fire. See 1 cor 3:10-15. That means that you will wait until judgement day before yiu enter heaven, if you are safe."
That's why I asked you my first question and I continue with second question how to justify rev 7:9 said there is great multitude in heaven. Since this vision appeared to st. John at first century, those people whom he saw , they were all non catholic or Christian.
But since you have answered it my first question with no, means those people in rev 7:9 were in heaven by God's grace.
Third, I want to say Big Thank you because you have done my home work for 144,000 special JWs people.lol.
Anyway, I will find those lost tribe from my bible, I need to organize my own reading, I like protestants pick and choose when reading the books.
Sincerely, Anna
In answer to your first question then, it will be very hard for a non-Catholic to go straight to heaven. But some have done it as evidenced by Enoch, Elijah and Moses.
DeleteThis is why Jesus Christ established the helps which we call the Sacraments. It is by the Sacraments that we walk with the Saints in the here and now.
You will read about the Ten Lost Tribes beginning in the books of Kings. After Solomon died, the people of Israel rebelled against Judah and formed their own Kingdom to the North. Only the tribes of Judah and the Levites supported the King of Judah.
The Kings of Israel became wicked immediately. The Kings of Judah maintained righteousness for a time. But eventually, even they became wicked and God brought to bear all the curses of Deut 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
It was then that the tribes were lost in the pagan nations to which they were exiled. But God preserved for Himself a small remnant from the City of David,
Isaiah 37:32
For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the Lord of hosts shall do this.
and because of God's promise to David, the Messiah was born of his line.
Isaiah 41:27
The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
At that time, it is prophesied that God would bring the Ten Tribes back:
Isaiah 66:20-21
And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
Your servant in Christ,
De Maria
Nice summary. Thanks.
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