Believing in Christ means trusting in Him for salvation

Lutero said:

Believing in Christ means trusting in Him for salvation (Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). [Obeying His Words after we have been saved through faith is works. If believing in Him for salvation is simply defined as obeying Him after we are saved, then how much obedience does it take before we can say that we believe in Him?

De Maria:
Isn't that what those who believe in FAITH ALONE should quantify? You claim to save yourselves by your faith alone. But we leave judgement to Him.

Acts 10:43 says that whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins. These Gentiles believed in Him and received the Holy Spirit prior to being water baptism.

Let's see:

Acts 10 begins by calling a man who believes in God devoutly and pays alms a just man:

Acts 10

¹There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
²A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

That's faith and works.

Then, God sends to this man an angel who says:
³⁰And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
³¹And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

Note that he was fasting. He was offering to God a sacrifice of suffering. Then, God sent him and angel who said that God remembered his faith ALONE? No. His ALMS.

And God also sent to this man, St. Peter, the leader of His Church, who, hearing this story said:
³⁵But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Again, faith and works are confirmed as the basis for salvation.

And then, God sends the Holy Spirit upon this man and his cohort and St. Peter says:'
⁴³To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
⁴⁴While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
⁴⁵And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
⁴⁶For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
⁴⁷Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
⁴⁸And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Why did he Baptize them after they received the Holy Spirit? Think about it. That is the purpose of his mission. He needed to Baptize them for the remission of sins. Otherwise they would remain in their sins. If that isn't the case, then there was no need for St. Peter to come to them. For the Holy Spirit had already indwelt these people. But they had not been Baptized.

In Acts 11:17, when referring back to the events that place here in Acxts 10, Peter said - So if God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ.. These Gentiles were said to have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ prior to being water baptized. So how much obedience did they accomplish prior to being water baptized in order to constitute believing in Him?

Really? You have to ask that question? Do you not know the meaning of words?

St. Cornelius is called "devout". Let's see what that means:
Definition of DEVOUT

1
: devoted to religion or to religious duties or exercises

2
: expressing devotion or piety <a devout attitude>

3
a : devoted to a pursuit, belief, or mode of behavior :serious, earnest <a devout baseball fan> <born adevoutcoward — G. B. Shaw>
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...10&version=KJV



St. Cornelius is also called a man who worketh righteousness:
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

1
: acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

2
a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision>b : arising from an outraged sense of justice ormorality<righteous indignation>

3
slang : genuine, excellent

— righ·teous·ly adverb
— righ·teous·ness noun

 See righteous defined for English-language learners »

See righteous defined for kids »

Examples of RIGHTEOUS

• <a righteous man can be trusted to act honorably regardless of the circumstances>

St. Cornelius is called just:
Definition of JUST

1
a : having a basis in or conforming to fact or reason :reasonable <a just but not a generous decision>barchaic : faithful to an originalc : conforming to a standard of correctness : proper <justproportions>

2
a (1) : acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good : righteous <a just war> (2) :being what is merited : deserved <a just punishment>b : legally correct : lawful <just title to an estate>




And St. Cornelius feared God, fasted and paid alms:

Fearing God is faith. And fasting and paying alms are works.

And St. Cornelius is remembered for the alms he paid: 

That is a work. Not faith alone.

Placing their faith in Christ for salvation constituted believing in Him. Believing in Him may result in obedience afterwards, but we obey His Words as a result of believing in Him.

Precisely! But believing in Him or claiming to do so without evidence of works, does not save. Faith alone is dead.

God saves those who believe Him and obey His will.

Jesus was still alive when He said, "this is my body" in Matthew 26:26.

And?

It could not be his literal body.

It is unbelievable to you that God could do that, doesn't it? But not to me. I believe Jesus.

The bread is not literally His flesh. It is symbolic of His flesh. Jesus said I am the door. This does not mean that He is a literal door. This symbolically means that he is the only way to God. Jesus said, If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved.. (John 10:9). “He who believes” in Christ is equivalent to “eats My flesh and drinks My blood."

John 6:40 - "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:54 - “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6 does not afford any support to the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is an emphatic statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him for salvation. Jesus is the Bread of Life. Just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to all believers. Partaking in the Lord's Supper and believing that the bread is His literal flesh and trusting in that act to save you is not believing in Him.

[/quote]

Those who were there, His disciples, left Him, because they believed He was speaking literally. AND JESUS DID NOT CORRECT THEM. Jesus only reaffirmed His message. Jesus said, you don't believe me because you have not seen me ascend to my place at the right hand of God:
John 6:62

King James Version (KJV)
⁶²What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

But since they did not recognize God with them, they did not believe Him.

False. You are believing in this Sacrament of the Roman Catholic church, not in Him. Your faith is in Sacraments, not in Christ alone.

My faith is in Christ AND His Church AND His Sacraments. I believe in His Sacraments and His Church because I believe in Him.

You claim to believe in Christ, but in denying His Church and Sacraments, you deny Him by your actions.

Your faith is in this Sacrament, not in Christ for salvation. I'm only testing your words in light of Scripture, not taking the place of Christ.

Please continue to use the Scripture. It is exactly why I am here. That we may compare the Protestant beliefs and the Catholic beliefs to Scripture. It is amazing to me that you actually think that any Protestant belief which contradicts Catholic doctrine has any validity in Scripture. But perhaps those who read this debate will not be so blinded.

In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the state of our hearts. Words will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness.

Our faith will be judged by our actions. Words are a form of action. All our actions will be judged. Our words. Our works of corporal mercy. Our works of spiritual mercy. This is how our faith will be determined. By our works.

In John 3:18, Jesus said, He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already.. If by someone's words, they demonstrate that they are not believing in Him for salvation, does that make me a judge over them to determine where they stand according to what Jesus said? Jesus said that those who believe in Him shall not perish, are not condemned, and have everlasting life. I believe in Him for salvation so am I supposed to be unsure of my status in receiving eternal life? Does that make me a judge for believing the words of Jesus? Those who believe can know they have eternal life (1 John 5:13).

Those who keep God's Commandments are they who believe:
1 John 5

¹Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
²By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
³For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
⁴For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
⁵Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Why can't you say for sure that you know? If you are trusting in works for salvation, then you couldn't know for sure because you could never know for sure if you did "enough" works.

How do you know you have enough faith?

This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. "But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? (Ezekiel 18:29). In Ezekiel 33:12, we read: When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? “If he trust in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

Apparently, you read it but did not understand it:
Luke 18:9-11

King James Version (KJV)
⁹And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
¹⁰Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
¹¹The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

It is Protestants who trust in their own righteousness, as does this Pharisee.
It is Catholics who rely upon the judgement of God. Catholics never say, "I did this and that therefore I am saved." We always say, "We don't know if we are saved. We hope we are. But it is God who saves us."

This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3-4 - “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.”

That describes the Protestant ethic. They have established their own righteousness. Whereas, Catholics rely upon God's judgement. It is God who establishes our righteousness, if He so wills.

The Lord clearly says in His Word, those who BELIEVE in Him shall not perish, are not condemned, have everlasting life. I BELIEVE in Him for salvation. That is not being a judge to determine where I stand according to the Words of my Lord and Savior. The Bible says that we can know for sure that we have eternal life (1 John 5:13) yet you say that you can't know for sure that you are saved. There is a problem here. I will await the judgment of my Lord to determine rewards and loss of rewards (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). I cannot make that judgment.

You can't make any judgement.
1 Corinthians 4

¹Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
²Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
³But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
⁴For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
⁵Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

You say that I have my reward? Don't confuse me with these men in Matthew 6:2 - Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

You don't understand what you are reading. The Bible says you may know, IF YOU KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

This is exactly what you do. You define His Will by the will of the Roman Catholic church.

On the contrary, God has revealed His will in the Scriptures. It is quite clearly understood:
Psalm 15

¹Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
²He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
³He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.

Proverbs 11:18

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁸The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.

Acts 10:35

King James Version (KJV)
³⁵But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Romans 2:13

King James Version (KJV)
¹³(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

I already explained Romans 2:13 and Revelation 22:13-15 to you. Unfortunately you are still reading salvation by works into these passages of Scripture.

Salvation by God for those who demonstrate their faith by works of love.

And you explained your understanding of the Scripture. But you are not infallible. I have my own understanding which I have also explained. I will let the reader decide between you and I.

By cultivating the qualities listed in vvs. 5-7, Christians can be sure that God has chosen them and called them. No one is ever "unelected," but professing believers should make sure they are not deceived counterfeit Christians (2 Corinthians 13:5). Make (4160) (poieo) means make or do. Poieo is in the present tense which calls for continuous effort -- making certain (strengthening our assurance of salvation). So if we are supplying these qualities, and they are increasing, we can have assurance of our calling and election and can avoid the awful struggle of doubt and fear associated with a lack of assurance.

Did you say, "if we are supplying these qualities"? And "if they are increasing"? Then we can have assurance?

Obviously what you are trying to imply is doing these things sustains our salvation and if we don't do them, we lose our salvation. Of course the words "lose salvation" are not found here. Peter is not teaching that a genuine believer can lose their salvation. He is talking about the added assurance that a genuine believer will have if they cultivate these qualities mentioned in vss. 5-7. To fall or stumble means literally to lose one's footing and so to fall, stumble or "to be tripped up". Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity. The disciples did stumble but they did not lose their salvation (Matthew 26:31).

Did Judas Iscariot lose his salvation?

Sincerely,

De Maria