God says that we have been justifed by faith

Lutero:

God says that we have been justifed by faith (Romans 5:1).

De Maria
But not by faith alone (James 2: 24). Doers of the Law are justified (Romans 2:13).

I have placed my faith in Christ for salvation, therfore, according to God's Word, not my words, I have been justified. My faith trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation, and not in my works. Faith (rightly understood) alone. This does not mean that my faith remains "alone" (unsolitary, unfruitful, barren) in regards to producing good works. This is James' argument. He does not teach that we are saved by works. His concern is to SHOW the reality of the faith "professed" by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith "claimed" (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Those who have been saved through faith are not doing good works in order to become saved, but because they have already been saved by an authentic faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet faith, if it is genuine, will be substantiated and confirmed by good works. It's just that simple. Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT.

I don't accept anything that contradicts Scripture. Scripture says:
Romans 2:13

King James Version (KJV)
¹³(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:20-23

King James Version (KJV)
²⁰For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
²¹Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
²²But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
²³For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

2 Corinthians 5:9-11

King James Version (KJV)
⁹Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
¹⁰For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
¹¹Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

By faith "in Christ" alone. Faith in works is not faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8,9). Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, (not in our works). Therefore, having been justified by faith "apart from additions or modification" (NOTICE PAUL DID NOT SAY FAITH AND WORKS) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1). Now James is looking for the PROOF of faith. So if we really do have genuine saving faith, then our life will SHOW it (James 2:18). Works demonstrate that our faith is genuine, so we are justified by works or "shown to be righteous" by our works. No works demonstrate no faith. Faith comes first (root) then the works follow (fruit). So it is by faith that trusts "in Christ" alone for salvation (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). Simple! Too simple!

I agree, it is too simple. Those who place faith in themselves, declare themselves saved because of their self reliance. But we who rely upon Jesus, hope for our salvation in Him. We await our judgment with patience and meekness. Knowing that He is just and merciful. We don't rely upon our faith or our works. But upon Christ.

I already explained this above. Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation and faith that remains "alone" in producing good works is not the same message. Are you getting it yet?

I'm getting it. But self contradicting statements are simply illogical. To say, I am saved by faith alone but not a faith which is alone, is SELF CONTRADICTING. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

If you could perfectly obey the Law. Have you done this? (Romans 3:23). Jesus said, "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?" (John 7:19). Which of us have perfectly obeyed the Law? I don't know about you but I need a Savior.

My Saviour is Christ. As for keeping the Law perfectly. Have you forgotten the Scripture which says:
Proverbs 24:16

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

What do you think it means?

Who said anything about denying it? The point that I have been making is that none of us have perfectly obeyed the Law.

Did I say that anyone had kept the Law perfectly? 

Because God saves through faith and not by the deeds of the Law, does this make the Law useless? No. The teaching that justification is through faith and not by perfectly obeying the Law does not destroy the Law. Since nobody has ever perfectly obeyed the Law, yet Jesus Christ never once broke the Law, faith in Christ's finished work of redemption brings the ultimate respect to the Law. You keep looking to what you DO instead of looking to what Christ has already DONE.

Why do you keep saying that? I look to Christ. That is why I obey Him. It is He who will judge me. 

On the other hand, you keep looking to yourself. You measure your faith as though you could pour it in a cup and say, "Ah, that's enough." Only Christ can see into your soul. Not even you can judge your soul.

We, Catholics, keep our eye on Christ.
You, who believe in saving yourselves by faith alone, keep your eye on self.

The Gentiles did not have the Law of Moses, but since they do by nature the things contained in the law, they are a law unto themselves. This still does not support justification by perfectly obeying the Law. Who of us have perfectly obeyed the Law? You keep missing that point. Trying your best, obeying part of it is not perfectly obeying the Law. You need a Savior.

I didn't say anything about perfectly obeying the Law.

And have any of us PERFECTLY obeyed the Law? NO! That is what I've been telling you.


Actually I'm right. Who has perfectly obeyed the Law? Not just some, many of the Jews thought that their justification was through keeping the Law. Why do you think that Paul constantly spoke against this idea? Why are you looking to be justified by keeping the Law? How are you any different than these Jews? Difference in style maybe, but same in substance. Works based false gospel.

Proverbs 24:16 

My faith trusts in Christ alone for salvation. He alone is my Savior. What else are you trusting in to save you? What else is your Savior? Your church? Your works? Do I have to spell out the word "alone" next to faith in each of these passages of Scripture (Romans 3:22,28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..) in order to figure out that the word faith "stands alone" in connection with receiving salvation? Do these passages say faith "plus something else?" Galatians 2:16 says, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." Do I need to add the word "alone" next to Jesus Christ in this verse to figure out that Jesus Christ "stands alone" as the object of our faith in receiving salvation?

That is the problem. You SPELL out alone in each of those passages. But it isn't there. You are adding the word ALONE to Scripture.

Did Paul really mean to say, Jesus Christ "plus something else?" Jesus Christ plus works of the Law? You have not produced one verse which says that we are saved through faith AND WORKS or faith in Christ AND WORKS. The true Church is spiritual body of believers, not a church building with a name stamped on it that says Roman Catholic. Those who hear the Church (born again believers) will hear Him because they receive the truth from Him. Unbelievers do not regardless of where they attend church.

But I have produced many verses which say that unless we do the will of God, we won't be saved. Check out Matt 7:21.

[quote]I already explained this. Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) and faith that remains "alone" in producing good works (James 2:14) is not the same message. The word "alone" in both of these instances is not connected to the same thing. We are saved through faith and not by works, (our faith trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in our works) yet faith, if it is a genuine living faith, it will be substantiated and confirmed by good works (fruit, by product, demonstrative evidence of our faith). Simple! First comes faith (made alive in Christ, created in Christ Jesus - source of life in our faith - Ephesians 2:5-9) then UNTO good works (Ephesians 2:10). No works demonstrate that we have not placed our faith in Christ for salvation and have not been made alive in Christ. 

Faith that works does not remain alone. Faith alone is dead.

False accusation. My faith trusts in Christ for salvation. He is the object of my faith in receiving salvation. He said that we have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). He judges those who have faith as saved. These are His words, not mine. I have faith in Christ for salvation so He judges me saved. He said those who BELIEVE can KNOW they have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Yet, you say you can't know which demonstrates a crisis of faith. I take no credit for my salvation and I am certainly not trusting in myself for salvation. I cannot do anything to earn my salvation. I am a sinner who is in complete need of a Savior (Romans 3:23; 6:23) and that's why I have placed my faith in Christ for salvation. We are saved through faith, not works. Not because I said it but because God's Word says it.

Those who trust in their faith alone, trust in themselves. Show me how to measure faith. Do you pour it into a cup? Show me.

If you only trusted in Christ for salvation, then you would not be looking to supplements to help save you. If you have to await His Judgment to find out if His Words are true (John 3:16,18; 1 John 5:13) then you are trusting in the wrong thing for salvation. Roman Catholics who are unsure about their salvation are obviously unsure if Christ is an allsufficient Savior or not. I don't measure my faith as being great faith or less than great faith. My focus is on the OBJECT of my faith in receiving salvation and that is THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Either you are trusting 100% in Him to save you or else YOU ARE NOT. God knows if we are or if we are not. God didn't say these words in (John 3:16,18; 1 John 5:13) so that we would remain clueless about our salvation status until the Judgment.

Tell me how much faith you have. Brag on yourself. Show me.

Amen! Good works and love are the demonstrative evidence of having been saved through faith and being a child of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother (1 John 3:10). Notice, IS NOT OF GOD. Children of God practice righteousness and love their brother BECAUSE they are children of God, not to become children of God. We must be careful not to put the cart before the horse. Saved through faith, created in Christ Jesus, then unto good works.

On the contrary, those who do good works with patience unto the end are they who are saved (Romans 2:7).

Explain the difference.

Sure. No one is justified by the Law. That means that one who claims to keep the Law does not justify himself thereby. Just as one who claims faith alone does not justify himself thereby.

God will justify those who have ACTUALLY kept the Law in His eyes.

Let me give an example. I don't precisely know how you do it. But you claim to possess a faith ALONE which has saved you. Somehow, you have justified yourself because you think you believe what Jesus has said and you think therefore that you are keeping the Commandments because you say that all who are saved, do so. But God has the last word. He will see into your heart and judge your faith by your deeds. Irregardless of what you claims you make for yourself.

Now, let's compare the Catholic position. We claim faith. But we don't know how to measure it as you do in order to confidently say, "we are so faithful that we are saved." We however, attempt to show our faith by our works. We don't boast to anyone about how faithful we are. We don't boast about our works. We don't measure our faith or works and say, "God will save me now." We simply go about our business OBEYING GOD. And we leave the business of judging souls to Him. 

Are you trying to use this verse the same way that John says in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.Of course, "keep" His commandments does not mean sinless perfect obedience to all that He has commanded. I think that I already explained that to you.

I don't know why. I never claimed sinless perfect obedience was necessary. Everyone knows that Abraham wasn't perfectly obedient. Yet Scripture says of him:
Genesis 26:5

King James Version (KJV)
⁵Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The natural man justifies himself by works. That's why he can't know for sure if he is saved because he doesn't know for sure if his works measured up or not and has to await the judgment of Christ to find out. That will be a terrible disappointment! (Matthew 7:21-23).

The one who will be terribly disappointed is the one who claims to already be saved.

None of us have perfectly obeyed the Law. That is the bottom line. Those who are saved keep His commandments (1 John 2:3) but this does not mean sinless perfect obedience. Choosing to believe in Christ for salvation is an act of obedience to the will of God which brings salvation (John 6:40) and Saving faith results in obedience to the Will of God after we have been saved through faith (1 John 2:3). Salvation by works is not the Will of God so if we are trusting in our works to save us, we have not placed our faith in Christ for salvation, and have not done the Will of God either in choosing to believe in Christ for salvation or after becoming saved.

Salvation by faith and works is the will of God. Faith alone is dead and useless for salvation.

If we have been saved through faith, then we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works. This is not saved by good works. So when does our faith save us? When we place it in Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) or not until later, AFTER we accomplish a list of good works? This will demonstrate exactly what your faith is in, what you believe in, what you are TRUSTING IN FOR SALVATION. What is the object of our faith in receiving salvation? Jesus Christ or works?

Jesus Christ is the object of our faith. That is why we work. Because He commands it.

Sincerely,

De Maria