To assuredly remove that barrier that exists between that soul and God

Philippian said:

Quote: Originally Posted by De Maria Closely related is the following question: So what is the necessity of Baptism? To assuredly remove that barrier that exists between that soul and God which keeps that soul from receiving God's Graces. Quote: The previous message was about children who die without being baptized. The assumption is that they died without committing willful and actual sin against God as well as without baptism. That some children die without a willful act against God, leads us to pray for God's mercy on them, and leads many to believe that God welcomes them Home. John 3:3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." 4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked...8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Quote: Let''s begin again. Original sin is the propensity to sin, but is not yet actual sin. In other words, being born with Original sin guarantees we will sin. There is no way around it. Nope, that which you are describing is concupiscence. And there is reason to believe that those who have been baptised, and who ask for and accept all of the Graces God bestows upon them CAN remain free from further sin. Quote: That is why Baptism is necessary. Because even the most innocent child who has not yet sinned will eventually sin. At that point he will need the influx of the Holy Spirit to mark him as a child of God. We need Baptism so we can receive God's Graces. Period. Regardless of our tendency to sin. For without Baptism there is NO relationship with God. (I'm not just talking about water baptism here either- but Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood). Quote: Say for instance that your child locks himself out of your house (i.e. sins). How will he get back in? If you have previously given him a key, he can get back in by himself. In a sense, that is Baptism. The key to get back to our house, our heavenly abode. Or say that your child is lost and if found unconscious. How will he be returned to you? If he has an identification card which identifies him as a member of your household he can be returned to you. Baptism provides us with that identifying mark on our soul. Before your child has left your home he is with you. Before we commit sin, we are with God. Only assuredly through baptism. Quote: [i]1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated. 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus'' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church''s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. Exactly. Quote: It is as though the flesh circumscribes the soul at conception. But the soul is still pristine. It is a babe in an enemy camp. Remember, we have three enemies, the flesh, the world and Satan. We are not pristine until we have been baptised. Our ancestral relationship to Adam and Eve had made it so that we are UNABLE to receive God's Graces until we have some sort of Baptism- or unless God shows his Mercy. He obviously kept Mary completely pristine, why should we not expect God to do the same for those infants who will never live on this Earth? Quote: Do we know when the soul makes a willful separation from God preferring the flesh to the Divine? Can a one day old child commit sin? We know that there are individuals who never achieve the age of reason. Are there individuals who acquire the age of reason at remarkably young ages? Anything is possible. But regardless of their "age of reason", those individuals who die before baptism, and before their first culpable sin is in God's hands. Quote: If so, then Baptism remains imperative. Baptism, the mark that can't be erased is like an opening or channel to God's grace. The soul retains the option to communicate with God. Baptism does not guarantee that the soul will communicate with God, but the lifeline is there if the soul needs it. Yes. __________________

My reply:

Re: Children who die without baptism Quote: Originally Posted by Shiann To assuredly remove that barrier that exists between that soul and God which keeps that soul from receiving God's Graces. Agreed. Quote: That some children die without a willful act against God, leads us to pray for God's mercy on them, and leads many to believe that God welcomes them Home. Amen. Quote: Nope, that which you are describing is concupiscence. You are correct. Concupiscence is the result of Original Sin. Quote: And there is reason to believe that those who have been baptised, and who ask for and accept all of the Graces God bestows upon them CAN remain free from further sin. You are correct again. However, is this true of those who have not been baptized? Isn't it a heresy to believe that without further grace and Divine assistance a soul which has not been baptized will *not* fall into actual sin? That's kind of complicated. I mean that a soul which has not been baptized is doomed to commit sin. Isn't that true? Quote: We need Baptism so we can receive God's Graces. Period. Regardless of our tendency to sin. For without Baptism there is NO relationship with God. Does that include the grace of heaven? Quote: (I'm not just talking about water baptism here either- but Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood). Which category does an unbaptized infant fit into? Quote: Only assuredly through baptism. That is correct and that is my point. Quote: We are not pristine until we have been baptised. You are correct. Nor have I made that claim. I meant that our soul is pristine (unblemished by actual sin) until we do commit an actual sin. Quote: Our ancestral relationship to Adam and Eve had made it so that we are UNABLE to receive God's Graces until we have some sort of Baptism- or unless God shows his Mercy. He obviously kept Mary completely pristine, why should we not expect God to do the same for those infants who will never live on this Earth? Those infants who died have been removed from the world and therefore are no longer subject to temptation. There is no need for a miraculous cleansing of the soul as in the Immaculate conception of Our Lady. However, what is stopping the ordinary means of cleansing from kicking in (i.e. Purgatory)? Quote: Anything is possible. But regardless of their "age of reason", those individuals who die before baptism, and before their first culpable sin is in God's hands. Amen. Thanks again for your input Shiann. Sincerely, De Maria