Hi Sally,
Your question is loaded with false presuppositions. The term "false presuppositions" is not an oxymoron. There are good presuppositions. And there are bad or rather false presuppositions which are not true and therefore lead to wrong conclusions. Let me break it down.
I don't know how to explain the error here except to ask the question in reverse.
"If good works are not required and faith alone leads to salvation, how much faith is enough?"
St. Paul gives the answer.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5
King James Version (KJV)
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
The correct answer to that question is, "God is my Judge. I don't know how many works are required. I don't know how much faith is required. But God knows and He is my Judge. As Christ says, our attitude should be:
Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
We simply do our duty without question. We do our duty and let the chips fall where they may, trusting in the Mercy of God.:
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
That's a false understanding of faith and a worse understanding of works.
The term "good works" as applied to salvation, doesn't mean wielding a hammer or bailing some hay. That is only part of the meaning of "good works". Certainly, gainful employment is a good work both in the spiritual and physical plane. But there are corporal and there are spiritual good works.
From his cross, St. Dismas, accomplished several good works.
1. He admonished the sinner. Do you remember that he reproved and rebuked the other criminal in defense of Jesus Christ?
2. He gave good witness. He openly confessed his faith in Jesus Christ, asking Him for salvation.
3. His words have, through the centuries, converted many to faith in Christ. Do you know what happens to those who convert others to Christ?
James 5:
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
So, not only did He express His faith, but His faith was working by the spiritual works which he set in motion from the cross. But there is something else. He suffered WITH Christ, in a manner unparalleled by any other person except the Mother of Christ, who was spiritually on the Cross with her Son:
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
EVEN IF St. Dismas had not performed the works which he performed from his cross. He would still go to heaven because of another Catholic Doctrine. The Doctrine which recognizes God's total authority. It is God, in the person of Jesus Christ, who told him that he would be saved. Therefore, St. Dismas would have been saved had he done nothing else.
The Council of Trent says:
CHAPTER XII
RASH PRESUMPTION OF PREDESTINATION IS TO BE AVOIDED
No one, moreover, so long as he lives this mortal life, ought in regard to the sacred mystery of divine predestination, so far presume as to state with absolute certainty that he is among the number of the predestined,[74] as if it were true that the one justified either cannot sin any more, or, if he does sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance.
For except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God has chosen to Himself.
When Jesus said to St. Dismas, "today, you shall be with me in paradise". That is recognized as a special revelation directly from God. However, St. Dismas fulfilled all the requirements. He expressed his faith in good works and He was informed by God that he was saved.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Your question is loaded with false presuppositions. The term "false presuppositions" is not an oxymoron. There are good presuppositions. And there are bad or rather false presuppositions which are not true and therefore lead to wrong conclusions. Let me break it down.
>>>So if faith alone does not lead to salvation and works are required then how many good works is enough? <<<
I don't know how to explain the error here except to ask the question in reverse.
"If good works are not required and faith alone leads to salvation, how much faith is enough?"
St. Paul gives the answer.
1 Corinthians 4:4-5
King James Version (KJV)
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
The correct answer to that question is, "God is my Judge. I don't know how many works are required. I don't know how much faith is required. But God knows and He is my Judge. As Christ says, our attitude should be:Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
We simply do our duty without question. We do our duty and let the chips fall where they may, trusting in the Mercy of God.:
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
>>>And then the thief that died on the cross next to Jesus would not be guaranteed salvation simply by accepting and acknowledging Jesus by faith alone because he wouldn’t have done any good works after accepting Christ as he was dying. <<<
That's a false understanding of faith and a worse understanding of works.
The term "good works" as applied to salvation, doesn't mean wielding a hammer or bailing some hay. That is only part of the meaning of "good works". Certainly, gainful employment is a good work both in the spiritual and physical plane. But there are corporal and there are spiritual good works.
From his cross, St. Dismas, accomplished several good works.
1. He admonished the sinner. Do you remember that he reproved and rebuked the other criminal in defense of Jesus Christ?
2. He gave good witness. He openly confessed his faith in Jesus Christ, asking Him for salvation.
3. His words have, through the centuries, converted many to faith in Christ. Do you know what happens to those who convert others to Christ?
James 5:
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
So, not only did He express His faith, but His faith was working by the spiritual works which he set in motion from the cross. But there is something else. He suffered WITH Christ, in a manner unparalleled by any other person except the Mother of Christ, who was spiritually on the Cross with her Son:
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
>>>So then did that thief not end up in paradise as Jesus said he would? If not then that would have meant Jesus lied to Him and since that isn’t possible for Jesus to lie… Well i draw my own conclusions.<<<
EVEN IF St. Dismas had not performed the works which he performed from his cross. He would still go to heaven because of another Catholic Doctrine. The Doctrine which recognizes God's total authority. It is God, in the person of Jesus Christ, who told him that he would be saved. Therefore, St. Dismas would have been saved had he done nothing else.
The Council of Trent says:
CHAPTER XII
RASH PRESUMPTION OF PREDESTINATION IS TO BE AVOIDED
No one, moreover, so long as he lives this mortal life, ought in regard to the sacred mystery of divine predestination, so far presume as to state with absolute certainty that he is among the number of the predestined,[74] as if it were true that the one justified either cannot sin any more, or, if he does sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance.
For except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God has chosen to Himself.
When Jesus said to St. Dismas, "today, you shall be with me in paradise". That is recognized as a special revelation directly from God. However, St. Dismas fulfilled all the requirements. He expressed his faith in good works and He was informed by God that he was saved.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Sorry friend,
ReplyDeletethe Catholic Church teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is not interested in tweaking the Word of God to make it more acceptable to secular society.
No thanks.