There was no one in heaven to whom they could pray

I've been debating with Peace by Jesus on the Beggars all forum.  And it just occurred to me why the OT Jews did not pray to the saints for their intercession.

Notice that the OT Jews did pray for the dead to be loosed from their sins.  The Books of Maccabees, although it is not acceptable to the Protestants because they don't claim it to be inspired, they do keep them for their "educational" value.

If we read the 2nd Book of Maccabees, we find that it records a historical fact.  The Jews prayed for their beloved dead and, in fact, already did many things for which the Catholic Church developed Doctrines.

Let's go over it:

 2 Maccabees 12:41-46.

41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.

42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.

43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

 Notice several Catholic doctrines here confirmed.

1.  Prayer for the dead.  The Jews who survived immediately began to pray that the sin of those dead might be forgotten.  "Forgotten by whom?" you might ask.  By God, of course.  Forgotten meaning forgiven.

But for the valiant Judas Maccabaeus, this wasn't enough.  He also ordered a monetary offering, a sacrifice of 12 thousand drachmas, to sent to Jerusalem in the name of the fallen.  What do Protestants say to that?  "BLASPHEMY!  We can't buy our way into heaven!  You can't buy anyone's way into heaven!" 

But what does Jesus say? 

Matthew 19:21King James Version (KJV)

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

What?  Did Jesus just counsel someone to buy his way into heaven?  Of course not!  But giving of your wealth for the good of the people of God is a good deed, a sacrifice, a form of prayer,  which God takes into account for your soul and for those whom you love.

Notice how this falls perfectly in line with the Maccabean verse. 

 45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

Because of the treasure which they offered in the name of the fallen, the fallen had treasure laid up for them.  This is the reason why the Protestants had this book taken from the Bible. 

Aside:  There's a whole 'nother argument where Protestants claim that Luther kept the book in a separate section.  They will try to side step the issue that he did not regard it the Word of God.  Essentially, if not literally, removing the book from the Bible because the Bible is the Word of God, isn't it?  Anyway, back to our proof for prayer for the dead….

So, what other Catholic Doctrines are here confirmed?  We just mentioned "prayer for the dead" above.

2.  We also mentioned the Treasury of merit and we confirmed it in the New Testament.  Here's another confirmation for the Treasury of merit:

Mark 12King James Version (KJV)

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:  44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

 In a very real sense, the poor widow was giving her life for those whom she loved.  And her sacrifice was stored in the treasury in heaven.  That isn't explicit, but where else would it be stored?

3.  Indulgences.  The Treasury of merit is key to understanding the Doctrine of indulgences because indulgences, the idea that the merits of the Saints can be offered for the souls of those in Purgatory or anyone whom we love.  This rests upon the idea that the graces of the saints are stored up for us in heaven.

Many, unfortunately, limit the idea of "merits of the Saints" to Jesus and the canonized Saints.  But that isn't true.  The Church teaches that all the baptized are saints.  Our merits are also stored in that same treasury.  Otherwise, it would not make sense for us to "sell all we have and give to the poor and we will have treasure in heaven." 

Where does 12 Macc mention indulgences?  Here:

And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

4.  And the entire idea of praying for the dead stands firmly upon the Doctrine that the dead will rise to eternal life.

44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

This proves that the living were praying for the dead from Old Testament times.

More interesting things from Maccabees:

We find that, although the living Jews did not request prayer from the Saints, the Saints were already interceding on their behalf:

2 Maccabees 15:8–16
8 And he exhorted his men not to fear the attack of the Gentiles, but to keep in mind the former times when help had come to them from heaven, and now to look for the victory which the Almighty would give them. 9 Encouraging them from the law and the prophets, and reminding them also of the struggles they had won, he made them the more eager. 10 And when he had aroused their courage, he gave his orders, at the same time pointing out the perfidy of the Gentiles and their violation of oaths. 11 He armed each of them not so much with confidence in shields and spears as with the inspiration of brave words, and he cheered them all by relating a dream, a sort of vision, which was worthy of belief. 

12 What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. 13 Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. 14 And Onias spoke, saying, “This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.” 15 Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: 16 “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

Notice how, two dead saints are here revealed to be in prayer for the Jewish people.

And here's another interesting point, from the OT  

In the OT, we find Elisha praying for his assistant's eyes to be opened to the spiritual life on earth.  And what does he see:

2 Kings 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.  17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.  18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

This coincides very well with the Cloud of Witnesses which St. Paul says surrounds us (Hebrews 12:1).

All these things support the Catholic Doctrine of the Communion of Saints.

In summary, the Hebrew Fathers, Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc. etc., were not in heaven.  Therefore, there was no Saint in heaven to whom the OT Jews had recourse.  And that is probably why God forbade them to communicate with the dead.  Even though, it is clear, that on some occasions, God permitted the dead to communicate with the living.

It is also clear, that the Jews could pray for their souls to be freed from sin.

Anyway, here are some of the objections which PBJ raised and how I answered them, I had just said that we walk upon Mt. Sion with the Saints, which is from Heb 12:22-24:

PeaceByJesus said...
Pt.10.
And which nukes purgatory, as it is written to all, 

Not at all.  You need to read it more carefully:

Heb 12:23 and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

These are just men who have already passed through the purifying fire of purgatory or which have been purified by their suffering on this earth.

and is positional, (Eph. 2:6) 

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

That matches perfectly.  And explains that we are now in communion with all the souls that are in the Body of Christ.  We, therefore, understand that since we are together, alive in Christ, we can communicate one with the other.

and surrounded by a cloud of witnesses refers to the witnesses testimony of their faith the previous chapter details,

Partly.  But it refers moreso to the fact which Elisha revealed, even in the Old Testament:

2 Kings 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.  17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.  18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

and does not teach praying to them, though this would be a prime opportunity.

Asking saints to pray for us is already part of the Gospel:
Acts 8:24
Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

And instead the Spirit goes on to say believers are to look to Jesus, "the author and finisher of faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2) Thanks be to God

It is because we look to Jesus that we have recourse to His Saints.

I'm not bound by the Old Testament. I don't live in the shadow. 

Yes, you are.  You don't see the New Dispensation in Christ and want to put your burden upon everyone else.  But we are made free by Christ and now walk amongst the Saints and commune with them.

The Old Testament Saints were approved by God and yet did not enter heaven.  Therefore, there was no one in heaven to whom the OT Israelites could pray.  But, when Jesus Christ died upon the Cross, He went to the place of the dead which we call Purgatory, where the OT Israelites were awaiting Him in order to be led to the promised land, which is a metaphor for heaven:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:  40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

You understand neither the Scripture, nor the power of God.