I recently saw this question asked on the Internet. This is how I would respond.
In my debates with JW, Evangelicals and other Non-Catholics, I don't try to prove anything definitively from Scripture.
My reasons.
1. The old saying is true, "for some, no proof is necessary. For others, no proof is ever enough."
2. They read Scripture differently than we do.
a. They read Scripture to discover their doctrines within. In fact, the JWs are famous for rewriting Scripture in order to write their doctrines into it.
b. Whereas, we know that New Testament Scripture is written based upon the pre-existing Traditions of Jesus Christ. That which Jesus Christ taught the Apostles is the basis of the New Testament. Thus, we go to the Church for our understanding of the Word of God. Not to Scripture.
3. Remember, we do not believe in the false doctrine of Scripture alone.
Having said that, I still engage them. But on our terms. Not theirs.
First of all, I keep in mind that proof texting is a no-win plan. As many texts as you provide to back up Catholicism, they can provide texts, which they twist, to support their errors. So, it's a stalemate.
So, my game plan is like this. Let's take the Divinity of Christ, for example.
My reasons.
1. The old saying is true, "for some, no proof is necessary. For others, no proof is ever enough."
2. They read Scripture differently than we do.
a. They read Scripture to discover their doctrines within. In fact, the JWs are famous for rewriting Scripture in order to write their doctrines into it.
b. Whereas, we know that New Testament Scripture is written based upon the pre-existing Traditions of Jesus Christ. That which Jesus Christ taught the Apostles is the basis of the New Testament. Thus, we go to the Church for our understanding of the Word of God. Not to Scripture.
3. Remember, we do not believe in the false doctrine of Scripture alone.
Having said that, I still engage them. But on our terms. Not theirs.
First of all, I keep in mind that proof texting is a no-win plan. As many texts as you provide to back up Catholicism, they can provide texts, which they twist, to support their errors. So, it's a stalemate.
So, my game plan is like this. Let's take the Divinity of Christ, for example.
JW says, "Proskyneo means obeisance and that proves that no one worshipped Christ in the early Church".
Me, "Mm? Then why do all the Early Church Fathers, worship Christ? Let me give you a list."
Polycarp, who was taught by the Apostle, St. John, in his Letter to the Philippians, said:
Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal high priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead.
Another disciple of St. John, Ignatius, said:
Ignatius, who is also Theophorus, unto her which hath been blessed in greatness through the plentitude of God the Father; which hath been foreordained before the ages to be for ever unto abiding and unchangeable glory, united and elect in a true passion, by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ our God; even unto the church which is in Ephesus [of Asia], worthy of all felicitation: abundant greeting in Christ Jesus and in blameless joy.
Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you.
There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord.
You get the drift, right? Now, I can guess how the discussion might go. They'll say, "Christianity went into apostasy at the time of Constantine"
And I say, "that's not true. Again, the Church Fathers prior to Constantine all teach the same things the Catholic Church Teaches today. It's your church that teaches heresy and your church is the new comer. Let's see what Scripture says about that:
Gal 1:8 New World Translation
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away* from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news.+ 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble+ and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
You, Jehovah's, are adding to the Teaching of the Church which came by Jesus Christ, something new which we do not accept.
And that's how I would respond. I hope that helps.
Sincerely,
De Maria
The Trinity:
ReplyDelete1.) God is three persons (The Father, The Son, And the Holy Spirit).
2.) Each person is divine.
3.) There is only one God (Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 43:10-11; 44:6-8).
Further Explanation Of The Trinity:
-Each of these Persons are completely divine in nature, but one figure does not equal the entire Godhead.
-Each person is distinct at the same time.
-The three persons are related to each other but are distinct at the same time.
-The Doctrine of the Trinity is known as one of the "mysteries" of the Christian religion.
Biblical Texts Demonstrate The Unity Among The Three Divine Persons Of The Trinity (1 John 5:7; John 10:30; Matthew 28:19; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Isaiah 42:1; Isaiah 48:16; Ephesians 4:4-6; Jude 20-21).
Jesus Christ Is Eternal; Co-Eternal With The Father (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-17; Micah 5:2; Isaiah 9:6; John 8:56-59; 17:5; Hebrews 1:1-3).
-The "word" mentioned in John 1:1-3 can only be a reference to Jesus Christ because the pronoun "He" is describing the noun "Word". Another verse in the same context states, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." (John 1:14).
Jesus Is God In The Flesh (Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16).
Jesus Is Called Emmanuel, Which Is Translated To Mean "God Is With Us" (Matthew 1:23).
Jesus Christ Has Two Wills---Human And Divine; He Is Both Fully God And Fully Human (Philippians 2:5-7).
"Let Us Make Man In Our Image, After Our Likeness..." (Genesis 1:26):
-The plural pronoun "us" can only be a reference to the Trinity because we are made only in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:27); not angels or anything else.
Jesus Has Deity Because He Is The Son Of God (John 5:18; 19:7).
Jesus was Called The Lord Our Righteousness (Jeremiah 23:5-6).
Only God Can Forgive Sins, But Jesus Christ Also Has The Power To Forgive Our Sins (Mark 2:5-7). So He must also be God.
The Only Way That You Can Honor The Father Is If You Honor The Son, As Well (John 5:23).
Thomas Called Jesus Christ "God" (John 20:28):
-The original Greek translation of John 20:28 literally reads, "The Lord of me and the God of me."
-If Thomas was speaking blasphemy, then why did Jesus Christ never rebuke him for making such a statement? Instead, Thomas' profession of Jesus' identity as God was accepted (John 20:29).
To God And Jesus Every Knee Shall Bow And Tongue Confess (Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:9-11).
The Holy Spirit Is A Person; Is God (John 4:23-24; Acts 5:3-5; 2 Corinthians 3:17).
Jesus Christ And The Holy Spirit Pray For Us/ Can Answer Our Prayers (Romans 8:26-28; Hebrews 7:25).
Titles Shared By The Father And The Son Jesus Christ:
-King of Kings (Deuteronomy 10:17; Revelation 17:14), Lord of Lords (Deuteronomy 10:17; Revelation 17:14), the Only Savior (Isaiah 43:10-11; Acts 4:12), The First and The Last (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 22:13), I Am (Exodus 3:14; John 8:58), The Alpha and The Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13-16), Rock (Isaiah 8:14; 1 Peter 2:7-8), Shepherd (Psalm 23; Hebrews 13:20-21), and Lord (Psalm 110:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 4).
Identical Functions Of God And Jesus:
-Both are worshiped by angels (Nehemiah 9:6; Hebrews 1:6); both are unchanging (Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8); both created everything (Nehemiah 9:6; Hebrews 1:10); both can answer prayers (Matthew 6:6-14; John 14:13-14; Acts 7:59); both give eternal life (John 10:28; 1 John 5:11); both judge the world (Psalm 96:13; John 5:22).
The problem for you, is that you learned all of that from the Teachings of the Catholic Church. It is the Catholic Church which defined the Trinity. You can quote the Bible all that you want, but you won't find the word "Trinity" in the Bible.
DeleteThat's why we don't go by Scripture alone. We know that Jesus Christ passed down His Teachings, through His Church:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDe Maria,
DeletePlease forgive me for any harsh or vituperative language, but I must say that your reply to me is quite lame.
First of all, the mere fact that a specific theological word is not found in the Bible does not prove it to be unbiblical, otherwise I could also point out how the Scripture fails to occupy words such as "Papacy", "Pope", and "Sacraments". But you would still argue that these concepts are clearly taught in the Bible.
But anyway, it is not the Roman Catholic Church who gets to determine which doctrines are authoritative, since it is God who is the Divine Author of Life. Neither does anybody have to submit to your Church hierarchy to recognize error. And it is you who stands in the wrong for pitting uninspired writings/traditions up to the written Word of God.
Shame on you, De Maria, I was only trying to be of assistance here. I was actually complimenting your post for once.
Jesse said,
Delete>>>De Maria,
Please forgive me for any harsh or vituperative language, >>>
There was no harsh language. So no need to ask forgiveness.
>>>but I must say that your reply to me is quite lame. >>>
On the contrary, my reply was right on the money.
>>>First of all, the mere fact that a specific theological word is not found in the Bible does not prove it to be unbiblical, >>>
I didn't way it was unbiblical. But your definition of that which is biblical is different from mine.
>>>otherwise I could also point out how the Scripture fails to occupy words such as "Papacy", "Pope", and "Sacraments". But you would still argue that these concepts are clearly taught in the Bible. >>>
Absolutely! So is the Holy Trinity. But the difference between you and I is that I know that the Catholic Church coined the word Trinity and defined it. And the Catholic Church used Tradition and Scripture to prove that it is a Teaching of Jesus Christ.
>>>But anyway, it is not the Roman Catholic Church who gets to determine which doctrines are authoritative,>>>>
Yes. Actually, it is.
>>> since it is God who is the Divine Author of Life. >>>
And it is God who appointed the Catholic Church as the Teacher of His Wisdom:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
>>>Neither does anybody have to submit to your Church hierarchy to recognize error. >>>
Indeed, they do. It is the Catholic Church through which God speaks:
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
>>>And it is you who stands in the wrong for pitting uninspired writings/traditions up to the written Word of God. >>>
On the contrary, the Traditions of Jesus Christ are inspired by the Holy Spirit and Scripture tells you that this is true:
2 Peter 1:19 We have the more sure word of prophecy; and you do well that you heed it,....21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke, being moved by the Holy Spirit.
So, you see, that Holy Men of God SPOKE, moved by the Holy Spirit. That is inspiration.
>>>Shame on you, De Maria, I was only trying to be of assistance here. I was actually complimenting your post for once.>>>
Well, thanks. But the problem is this. You are as much in error as are the JW's. And you will not correct your errors until you come into the Catholic fold, which is the Church which Jesus Christ established.
The teachings about the Trinity existed long before the ROMAN Catholic church was even thought of. Roman Catholicism didn't even exist until it began developing in the late 4th century.
ReplyDeleteHere's how I prove the divinity of Christ:
https://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2010/09/trinity-proven-by-logic.html
Glenn said:
Delete>>>Glenn E. ChatfieldSeptember 2, 2017 at 11:38 AM
The teachings about the Trinity existed long before the ROMAN Catholic church was even thought of. >>>
On the contrary, no one knew about the Trinity until it was revealed to the Catholic Church. And the world outside did not know about the Trinity until the Catholic Church revealed it to the world.
>>>Roman Catholicism didn't even exist until it began developing in the late 4th century.>>>
False. The Catholic Church came into existence when Jesus Christ uttered the words:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
>>>Here's how I prove the divinity of Christ:>>>
It doesn't matter what you teach. The Catholic Church was the first to Teach and explain the Divinity of Christ. If you are now accepting that Teaching, it is because you learned from those who learned it from the Catholic Church.
And if you claim that you used Scripture alone, you are ignoring the fact that it is the Catholic Church which wrote the New Testament based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Therefore, everything that you know about Christ, you owe to the Catholic Church.
Hi De Maria,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do not at this moment want to go off on a tangent regarding whether the Roman Papacy is of divine institution, I should still mention that none of the scriptural texts that you have cited above support your attempts to appendage extra-biblical oral tradition to the Bible. In other words, you have been constructing a case for the infallible authority of the Roman Catholic Church by practicing mere eisegesis. Neither can we submit to a "three-legged stool" that is full of internal contradictions.
The teachings of Scripture and apostolic tradition are in reality mirror reflections of each other. Thus, the two are meant to be complimentary in nature, not supplementary. It is from the pages of Divine Scripture that we develop church customs, traditions, and doctrine (i.e. Trinity). It is from the pages of Scripture that the teachers of the church define doctrine and are tested, not from the consensus of other uninspired men who have fleshly, puffed-up minds. It is Scripture that is meant to serve as the infallible spiritual standard of authority for God's church, not man-made traditions.
Now, it is impossible for you to come up with a process by which you can prove the validity of your inflated claims about Catholic tradition, apart from the fallacious circular reasoning committed by the leaders of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. In other words, all arguments that you use from interpreting Scripture or appealing to tradition are done on the basis that "your Church has declared them to be valid", and your church is "infallible" because she has interpreted Scripture and appealed to the same tradition as a means of self-support. In short, your entire argument for the authority claims of the Roman Catholic Church is that it is true "because it said so".
In conclusion, you have not at all interacted with any of my claims, but have only repeatedly restated what you believe to be true about your own church (as though that is really evidence). You most certainly are entitled to hold your own opinions.
Hi Jesse,
DeleteYou haven't addressed my arguments at all. The reason being, that you can't. The fact is, and it is proven by Scripture, that Sacred Tradition came before the New Testament. And this Sacred Tradition was passed down by Christ, through His Church. All you have for your side is denial of the truth:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesse said
>>>Hi De Maria,
>>>.... you have been constructing a case for the infallible authority of the Roman Catholic Church by practicing mere eisegesis. Neither can we submit to a "three-legged stool" that is full of internal contradictions.>>>
On the contrary, the infallible authority of the Catholic Church is proven by Scripture. You can object all that you want, but Scripture doesn't advise us to go to Scripture alone to learn the Faith of Jesus Christ:
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
>>>The teachings of Scripture and apostolic tradition are in reality mirror reflections of each other.>>>
No, Jesse. The Teachings of Scripture reflect Apostolic Tradition. Apostolic Tradition came first. The New Testament was written based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ. Not the other way around.
>>>Thus, the two are meant to be complimentary in nature,>>>
This is true. And so you have disproved the false idea of Scripture alone. Thanks.
>>> not supplementary.>>>
No one said the relationship was supplementary. That is your straw man argument.
cont'd
cont'd with Jesse
Delete>>>It is from the pages of Divine Scripture that we develop church customs, traditions, and doctrine (i.e. Trinity). >>>
On the contrary, the New Testament records the customs, Traditions and Doctrines that were already in place. Here's a very simple proof. Answer this question and don't ignore it. Was the Doctrine of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ written before or after Christ was resurrected?
Answer it, Jesse. Don't ignore it. Because it is obvious from the Gospels, that Jesus Christ taught His Resurrection long before it was ever written down.
>>>It is from the pages of Scripture that the teachers of the church define doctrine and are tested, not from the consensus of other uninspired men who have fleshly, puffed-up minds.>>>
That's not what Scripture says:
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
>>> It is Scripture that is meant to serve as the infallible spiritual standard of authority for God's church, not man-made traditions. >>>
Again, you contradict Scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
>>>Now, it is impossible for you to come up with a process by which you can prove the validity of your inflated claims about Catholic tradition, apart from the fallacious circular reasoning committed by the leaders of the Roman Catholic hierarchy. >>>
ON the contrary, it is you who is guilty of circular thinking. Your entire process is, "because the bible tells me so." But the Catholic Church goes by the true Bible Teaching. Which is, because we know from Tradition and Scripture:
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
>>>In other words, all arguments that you use from interpreting Scripture or appealing to tradition are done on the basis that "your Church has declared them to be valid", >>>
Absolutely! Because Christ appointed the Catholic Church as the Teacher of His Doctrines:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
>>>and your church is "infallible" because she has interpreted Scripture and appealed to the same tradition as a means of self-support. In short, your entire argument for the authority claims of the Roman Catholic Church is that it is true "because it said so".>>>
Our Church is infallible because Jesus Christ said so:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
>>>In conclusion, you have not at all interacted with any of my claims, but have only repeatedly restated what you believe to be true about your own church (as though that is really evidence). You most certainly are entitled to hold your own opinions.>>>
I don't need to interact with your claims. You agree with Catholic Teaching about the Holy Trinity. You are simply ungrateful about the fact that it is from the Catholic Church that you learned all that you know about the Holy Trinity.
And of course, your entitled to your opinion. But I have proven that your opinion, is false.
I don't know what happened to what I began to write -- it just disappeared.
ReplyDeleteThe "Catholic" (i.e. "universal") church began in the book of Acts, while the Roman Catholic church is a man-made organization which began developing in the late 4th century. That was AFTER the doctrine of the Trinity was established by the CATHOLIC (universal) church. You have been brainwashed into the RCC scripture twisting with the claim of Peter being the first pope, yet there is no such thing as a pope in the real church, just as priests were done away with in the New Covenant.
And, no, the RCC did NOT write any part of Scripture. All the RCC has done is twist scripture to develop doctrines of demons: priesthood, the mass, mariology, magisterium and the papacy, etc.
>>>Glenn E. ChatfieldSeptember 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM
DeleteI don't know what happened to what I began to write -- it just disappeared.>>>
Don't you hate it when that happens. Sometimes, pushing the back button restores the text. But often, it doesn't.
>>>The "Catholic" (i.e. "universal") church began in the book of Acts, while the Roman Catholic church is a man-made organization which began developing in the late 4th century.>>>
The Catholic Church and what you call the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same. The Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ and continues to Teach His Doctrines infallibly to this very day.
>>>That was AFTER the doctrine of the Trinity was established by the CATHOLIC (universal) church. >>>
Thanks for admitting that it is from the Church that we get Doctrine and not from Scripture alone.
>>>You have been brainwashed into the RCC scripture twisting>>>
On the contrary, you have been brain washed by anti-Catholic fables which they cunningly devised to lead people away from Christ.
>>> with the claim of Peter being the first pope, yet there is no such thing as a pope in the real church,>>>
Peter is the first Pope, whether you believe it or not.
First, Jesus Christ appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:
Matthew 16:17-19 (King James Version)
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.
Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
See also:
http://washedsanctifiedandjustified.blogspot.com/2012/06/who-is-rock.html#more
cont'd
cont'd with Glenn
Delete>>>just as priests were done away with in the New Covenant.>>>
That's what you say because you don't understand the relationship between Tradition and Scripture:
You don't recognize the Priesthood which is everywhere depicted in the New Testament because you don't accept the Traditions of Jesus Christ.
First, the Priesthood is here explicitly mentioned:
1 Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
Here it is explicit in the original Greek, which loses something in the translation to English:
hierourgeō
1) to minister in the manner of a priest, minister in priestly service
a) of those who defend the sanctity of the law by undergoing a violent death
b) of the preaching of the gospel
Romans 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles,ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
There is still more. But again, you don't recognize it. Here is Jesus telling you that He has established a ministerial priesthood:
Matthew 12:
1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Have you ever wondered why the Disciples are guiltless? They ate bread on the Sabbath day and were guiltless because they were the equivalent of the Levites, the ministerial priests of the Old Testament. The Levites were in the Temple, eating and working on the Sabbath. But there is one greater than the Temple and His ministerial priests are free to eat and work on the Sabbath, because He is Lord of the Sabbath.
Not enough for you? Here's another:
Luke 22:25-26
King James Version (KJV)
25And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
Have you ever heard it said that the Catholic Priests are the servants of the servants of God. That is the basis of that saying.
cont'd
cont'd with Glenn:
Delete>>>And, no, the RCC did NOT write any part of Scripture.>>>
The Catholic Church wrote the entire New Testament and approved the Old Testament books which would be included in the Bible.
>>> All the RCC has done is twist scripture to develop doctrines of demons: priesthood, the mass, mariology, magisterium and the papacy, etc.>>>
All those Doctrines are recorded in Scripture because Scripture records the pre-existing Doctrines of Jesus Christ.
Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church.
All Catholic Doctrines can be found in the Bible, explicit or implied. Examples:
The Church which is infallible (1 Tim 3:15; Eph 3:10).
The Church which is united (Eph 4:5).
The doctrines of the Catholic Church which are distinctive from other churches:
Purgatory (1 Cor 3:15).
Eucharist (1 Cor 11:23-27).
Communion of Saints (Rom 12:12-20).
The Mass and the necessity to attend (Heb 10:25-31).
The Sacrament of Confession (Heb 13:17).
The Sacrament of Holy Orders (1 Tim 4:14).
The Sacrament of Baptism (Titus 3:5).
Justification and salvation by faith and works (Rom 2:1-13).
Dagnab it, I'm in the middle of typing and it disappears, and, no, it doesn't go back. I've never had this happen on any other site. Your site must be demon possessed, trying to keep truth from being posted.
ReplyDeleteThe RCC bears little resemblance to the REAL Catholic (universal) church. Your proof texts are severely twisted to support the lies of Rome. Just one instance is all I'm going to bother with, and that is purgatory. You are an RCC hack with absolutely NO discernment.
Now, try to respond to this article on my site -- you will have no biblical justification for the lies about purgatory.
https://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2010/06/unbiblical-catholic-sin-purgatory-and.html
>>>Glenn E. ChatfieldSeptember 3, 2017 at 7:00 PM
DeleteDagnab it, I'm in the middle of typing and it disappears, and, no, it doesn't go back. I've never had this happen on any other site. Your site must be demon possessed, trying to keep truth from being posted.>>>
On the contrary, it is protected by God's angels and they keep demon spawn from posting their satanic lies.
>>>The RCC bears little resemblance to the REAL Catholic (universal) church. Your proof texts are severely twisted to support the lies of Rome. >>>
No, what you call the RCC is merely a branch of the Catholic Church. The RCC is the Western rite of the Catholic Church, and there are many other rites which form the Catholic Church, which all submit to the Pope.
>>>Just one instance is all I'm going to bother with, and that is purgatory.>>>
Purgatory is explained in Scripture. You may not like it, but it's true.
http://washedsanctifiedandjustified.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-does-bible-say-about-purgatory.html
You can object to it as much as you like, but you are merely contradicting Scripture.
>>> You are an RCC hack with absolutely NO discernment.>>>
You are an NCC hack with absolutely no understanding of Scripture.
>>>Now, try to respond to this article on my site >>>
Neh. I have already debunked several Protestant sites of all their errors. They, however, don't listen to God's Word. They only submit to their own understanding.
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
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ReplyDeleteI think the main reason you're leaving is because you recognize that you've been soundly refuted. Anyway, good to hear from you. It's nice to be given the opportunity to refute Protestant errors, head on.
DeleteAnd forgetting the fact that I've recently wrote an article addressing your claims...
DeleteYeah, the articles I've written about the RCC in my 2010 series also prove the errors of De Maria's hermeneutics. He's unteachable and I'm through here.
ReplyDeleteThe reason you're leaving is because you've been debunked. You know when you've been beaten.
DeleteThanks for stopping by. May God bless you and lead you to the Church which Jesus Christ established. The Catholic Church.
Oh, please give us a break, and stop being mentally deranged! If you had accomplished anything of the sort, then we would surely have brought ourselves into submission to the Roman Bishop. And why would we give you links to or blogs, if we were so afraid of your "invincible" Catholic arguments? In truth, your arguments fall short of anything but "proof".
ReplyDelete>>>JesseSeptember 5, 2017 at 11:19 PM
ReplyDeleteOh, please give us a break, and stop being mentally deranged! If you had accomplished anything of the sort, then we would surely have brought ourselves into submission to the Roman Bishop. >>>
A few honest Protestants have done so. But most Protestants would rather live with errors than obey Scripture and submit to the Pope:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Or, perhaps you would bother to tell me, to which "ruler" do you submit and obey, with the understanding that he watches over your soul?
>>>And why would we give you links to or blogs, if we were so afraid of your "invincible" Catholic arguments?>>>
Because you are proud of the false doctrines to which you adhere.
>>> In truth, your arguments fall short of anything but "proof".>>>
On the contrary, my proofs are rock solid. Here's another one.
Matt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
That is one of the Traditions which Jesus Christ passed down through the Catholic Church. Notice how this one speech demolishes the pillars of Protestantism, Scripture alone and Faith alone.
First Jesus says, "those who hear my lessons and do them". That's the essence of holding on to Tradition. He doesn't say, "He who reads it in the Bible alone". Yet Protestants hold on to the Bible alone and reject the Traditions of Jesus Christ which are only passed down through the Catholic Church.
Next, notice how those very same words destroy the non biblical doctrine of faith alone. "Those who hear my words and do them". Not those who claim to believe in me and prclaim themselves saved by faith alone.
It is the Catholic Church which Teaches the Wisdom of God. The longer you remain out of it, the less chance you will have to be saved.