The Catholic order is the best

DE MARIA May 8, 2013 at 7:29 pm

UK said:
Catechism1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. …The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care … to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments. 

My reading of Jn 3 v5 AND 6 is that ‘water’ related to the natural birth of man through his mother’s uterine waters.

Because one is naturally born through the “uterine waters” of their mother, water is an apt symbol of birth. Therefore, in Water Baptism, the water poured on our bodies signifies and brings about the new birth of the Creature by the Spirit.

What then matters is subsequently being born of the Spirit. ‘Reborn’ is incorrect and very misleading if it implies that water is an agent of rebirth.

On the contrary, your statement simply shows a lack of faith in Christ. It is akin to Namaan who denied that God could cure him by the action of washing seven times in the waters of the Jordan. We believe that God can cause our new birth through water.

This antithesis between earth and heaven is continued in v6 with flesh v spirit.
The first line of 1257 is clearly wrong because Jesus Himself accepted the thief on the cross into His kingdom unbaptised.

On the contrary.  Christ certainly accepted the Good Thief.  But there are reasons why he is called the Good Thief and which are the basis of his salvation by Jesus Christ.

1. Scripture does not say that the Good Thief was not baptized.

2. Scripture says that everyone in Judea was baptized by St. John.

Matthew 3:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.


3. Jesus and His disciples also baptized many.

John 3:22-24

King James Version (KJV)

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.


4. In addition, Catholic Doctrine says that one may be baptized of blood. The Good Thief definitely meets this criteria since he was crucified alongside Jesus.

5. Catholic Doctrine also says that one must suffer with Christ to be saved. The Good Thief meets this criteria.

And finally, Catholic Doctrine says that one is saved if God says that one is saved. Jesus is God and Jesus saved the Good Thief, whether he was baptized or not.

Fortunately the last sentence of 1257 gainsays the first by removing it as an essential step.1257 also states “The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism…” Jesus mentions only belief in John 5 v 24. Yes, water baptism is important but I am not even sure that the Great Commission must of necessity mean water baptism as opposed to baptising in/into/with the Spirit

God has set out a normal means of salvation by the Church. If anyone strikes out on their own to be saved according to their own ideas, they are on their own. But God has been very clear that He saves the obedient:

Hebrews 5:9  And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I hope you will retain any earlier appreciation that creeds and catechisms are fallible.

Perhaps. But Catholic Doctrine is infallible because the Church is the Pillar of Truth (1 Tim 3:15).

This came home to me forcibly when I saw that Catholic Teaching had massaged and thereby set out 10 different Commandments from the ones listed in Exodus (and Deuteronomy)

They are the exact same Commandments. Protestants have changed some things but the Catholic order is the best.


Sincerely,


De Maria