Pages

Friday, May 10, 2013

A church founded by an apostle


Lutero said:
A church founded by an apostle
Consider this:

Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church
It is one of the Saint Thomas Christian churches tracing its origins to the missionary activity of Thomas the Apostle.

Beliefs and practices
Their beliefs and practices before the arrival of the Portuguese (around 1498) as evident in the canons of the Synod of Diamper.
Malankara Church,
1.denied the doctrine of Transubstantiation.2.maintained the spiritual presence of the body and blood of Christ in the sacrament.3.condemned the adoration of images as idolatrous.4.were not aware of the intercession of the saints.5.were not aware of prayers for the dead.6.had no knowledge of purgatory.7.had no knowledge of extreme unction.8.had no knowledge of auricular confession.9.did not follow celibacy of the clergy.
Under the leadership of their elder Thomas, Nazranis around Cochin gathered at Mattancherry church on Friday, January 24, 1653 (M.E. 828 Makaram 3) and made an oath that is known as the Great Oath of Bent Cross.
The following oath was read aloud and the people touching a stone-cross repeated it loudly.
By the Father, Son and Holy Ghost that henceforth we would not adhere to the Franks, nor accept the faith of the Pope of Rome-wiki

Calvin said:Sounds like they were not corrupted by the false teachings of the RCC.
Thomas said:
Sounds like they were corrupted by Protestant doctrines.
Zwingli said:
But modernist RC apologists insist that when the Roman Catholics arrived out there, they were shocked to find the Christians praciticing the the same faith as they do in Rome.
Since Thomas surely taught them all about the RC papacy in Rome they must all obey, I wonder what the problem was... ...The St. Thomas Christians had succumbed to Nestorianism.
Nicholas said:
You have your facts mixed up. The Malankara Mar Thoma Syrian Church is a Protestant sect started by Abraham Malpan.

This is NOT to be confused with the Syro-Malabar Rite Catholics, who were founded by St. Thomas the Apostle and have ALWAYS been in communion of Rome. They are Antiochian in their rite and comprise the second largest of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches with nearly 4 million faithful. The Catholic Basilica of the National Shrine of St.Thomas is even built over the tomb of St.Thomas the Apostle in Chennai, India.
De Maria said:
Good detective work.


Nicholas said: 
I am fascinated by the Eastern Churches, particularly their liturgy..I just starting to study this...We actually have a Syro-Malabar community where I live. They are very proud of the fact that they are Thomas Christians and have always been in communion with Rome.
Lutero said:
I don't see that as true
Historically the Saint Thomas Christian community was part of the Church of the East, centred in Persia. They were organised as the Ecclesiastical Province of India in the 8th century, served by bishops and a hereditary Archdeacon. In the 16th century the overtures of the Portuguese padroado to bring the Saint Thomas Christians into the Catholic Church led to the first of several rifts in the community and the establishment of Syrian Catholic and Malankara Church factions. Since that time further splits have occurred, and the Saint Thomas Christians are now divided into several different Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, and independent bodies, each with their own liturgies and traditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians
Arrival of Portuguese in Malabar
The Syro-Malabar Catholic Archdiocese of Thrissur was the first Catholic diocese of India, formed through a special proclamation of the then Pope Leo XIII in May 1887.[10] The Portuguese Admiral Vasco da Gama landed at Calicut on 20 May 1498.[11] When he and the Portuguese missionaries arrived they found no Christians in the country except in Malabar. The Christians they found were St. Thomas Christians. The Christians were friendly to Portuguese missionaries at first; there was an exchange of gifts between them, and these groups were delighted at their common faith.[12] 
Later, due to certain differences, mainly in the liturgy, the relations between them became more and more strained. Under the Padroado (patronage) agreement with the Holy See the Portuguese missionaries started to interfere and things took a turn for the worse. They suspected the Indian Christians of heresy and schism and wanted to introduce the Latin customs and Latin manner of ecclesiastical administration, severing the East Syrian connection.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syro-Ma...mas_Christians
De Maria said:

Wikipedia is your source? Ok. Wikipedia says the St. Thomas Christians:
1. honor the Saints
2. celebrate the Marian feasts
3. celebrate the Mass
4. have priests
5. have bishops
6. accept the authority of the Pope
7. believe in Baptism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syro-Ma...atholic_Church

You can also find information here. Yet I see none of the things you mention below. The worst I find is that they were infected by the Nestorian heresy. Which means that "Where Nestorianism holds that Christ had two loosely-united natures, divine and human,"

Please show me where any of that listed below is mentioned in those wikipedian articles:
1.denied the doctrine of Transubstantiation.
2.maintained the spiritual presence of the body and blood of Christ in the sacrament.
3.condemned the adoration of images as idolatrous.
4.were not aware of the intercession of the saints.
5.were not aware of prayers for the dead.
6.had no knowledge of purgatory.
7.had no knowledge of extreme unction.
8.had no knowledge of auricular confession.
9.did not follow celibacy of the clergy.

If you have another source, please provide it so it can be examined.

Sincerely,

De Maria

10 comments:

  1. I am really rusty with those called schisms within the church throughout the centuries. Need spend time to learn it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As am I. But I am not a very systematic student. I have found that it is easier for me to learn the Catholic faith by:

      1. Reading the lives of the Saints.
      2. Discussing the Faith with like minded people.
      3. Debating the Faith with those who contradict the Catholic Church
      4. Oh and reading books by converts such as Steven Ray and Scott Hahn. Possibly because they answered the same questions I had in my mind. Also because they give examples of how to reply to objections.
      5. The other thing also, is researching the questions which I had in my own mind.

      One of the best books, actually a series of books for answering objections isRADIO REPLIES: Vols. I-III.. It was written by two priests who answered objections to the Catholic Faith on the radio for many years.

      Its an old series and out of print, but I found it at my local Catholic bookstore. So, it might be at yours also.

      Anyway, I've been studying my faith in my spare time now for over twenty years. I found this easier than sitting through a course in school or anywhere.

      Delete
    2. Honestly, I haven't done all the things you do, I hope by doing bible study I will be able to know about my faith better than before.

      I am going to have a look that book in a catholic book shop in central. I saw scott hahn's book there. Thanks De Maria for your info.

      Sincerely, Anna

      Delete
    3. I didn't mean to imply you had to do all those things. Remember, I didn't do those things all at once. I did them over a span of twenty years and in my spare time.

      Just a little at a time.

      Your servant in Christ,

      De Maria

      Delete
    4. I know that De Maria , you didn't imply it,

      Is my Hongkong english so bad??or my writing styles is awful, I assume you have known me for long time and understand every single thing I write. LOL.

      I have learned for almost a year in spare time.

      Peace.

      Delete
    5. Your English is wonderful. May your hunger for the Word of God continue to increase daily.

      Yours in the peace of Christ,

      De Maria

      Delete
    6. Lutero did not say that : Tester did at Carm.

      -Tester

      http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?106749-A-church-founded-by-an-apostle&p=3109217&viewfull=1#post3109217

      Delete
    7. Hello Tester,

      What was your point with that thread anyway? There are other Churches which were founded by Apostles which fell by the wayside. The Catholic Church under the authority of St. Peter is the one guaranteed the charism of infallibility (Matt 16:18-19). Not any of the others.

      So, what was the point of that thread?

      Sincerely,

      De Maria

      Delete
  2. don't change the subject: why were you dishonest?

    Lutero did not say that : Tester did at Carm.

    -Tester

    http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?106749-A-church-founded-by-an-apostle&p=3109217&viewfull=1#post3109217

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How is that a change of subject? Yes, you tester, posted it. So? Or didn't you want anyone to see what you wrote?

      As for me, I'm not here to give CARM any publicity. I changed the name in order that it couldn't be traced back to CARM.

      If you have a problem because I have shown how to debunk your words, let me know. I'll erase it. Otherwise answer my question.

      Sincerely,

      De Maria

      Delete

Thanks for contributing.