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Friday, February 13, 2015

We call it reverence when we address the Angels and Saints.


Cal:
Who are our prayers to be offered to in heaven?
Apparently you didn't read my response. It is obvious by your question that you still consider prayer equivalent to adoration.

Our prayers of adoration are only offered to God.
Our prayers (petitions) for intercession are offered to the Saints in heaven and to our fellow Christians here on earth.

That was the question.
Which in the parlance is called a "loaded" question. A question which is loaded with presuppositions and thus can't be answered until the presuppositions are addressed. An good example of this is, "have you ever stopped beating your husband?" Obviously, "yes" is the wrong answer since it leaves the impression you were beating your husband. "No", is equally wrong since it leaves the impression you are still beating your husband. The right answer would be, "I have never beat my husband, unnecessarily." 

The bible only says God.
The Bible says that God alone is adored.

Bible doesn't say Mary or saints.
The Bible gives plenty of examples, which I provided in my previous message. Please read it.

Live people are obviously not in heaven.
But Abraham and the angels are in heaven.

Nothing in that scripture speaks of prayer.
It takes spiritual discernment. Without meaning any disrespect, is something which Protestants lack because you are taught to read the letter of the Word and not the Spirit:

2 Corinthians 3:6

King James Version (KJV)

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The captain of the host of the Lord IS the Lord.
No. It is an Angel. Specifically, the angel Michael.

Who was this "captain of the host of the LORD"? A "host" in the Bible is an unseen army, invisible to the human eye that surrounds the throne of God. It is an angelic host. Cf. 2 Kings 6:17ff; Psalm 148:2; 103:21. Christ said twelve legions of angels were ready to defend Him.
But Michael commands the Angels:
Revelation 12:7

King James Version (KJV)

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

This is typical though. Why do you deny the plain word of Scripture? Michael is the Captain of the angels. Nowhere has anyone ever said that Joshua saw God. Yet you are now claiming that Joshua saw God in order to justify your errors.


Joshua immediately recognized the supernatural character of this visitor. Joshua was in the presence of God."And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, 'What has my lord to say to his servant?'" (v. 14b). Joshua fell on his face and worshiped. The worship paid to this messenger of the LORD is directed to Yahweh Himself. Who is this person? It is sin to worship angels and men (Exodus 20; Deuteronomy 5-8; Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9). The total impact of the context of the passage indicates that a superhuman person is present. He is in the presence of Deity. The commander of the army of the LORD is God Himself. Yahweh has come to lead and fight for His people. All distinctions between the messenger of the covenant and the LORD Himself evaporate in the context.
Verse fifteen removes any doubt as to who this "captain of the army of Yahweh" was. "The captain of the Lord’s host said to Joshua, 'Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.' And Joshua did so." In the Bible only things, places and people can be called holy because they are set aside for God or claimed by Him.
That doesn't mean that this Commander is God. All that means is that they were standing in a Holy Place. 

I want you to note the difference between what you and I are doing here. I am interpreting the Scripture according to the Scripture.

Joshua 5:14 identifies a commander of the Lord's army.
Rev 12:7 reveals that the commander of the Lord's angels is Michael.

But you pit the explanation of men against the revealed Truth of Scripture. So be it. Let everyone take note.

There was no prayer going on there
But there was a form of worship which we call reverence and we address to the Angels and Saints.

Take that up with God. He did not define prayer. He said PRAYER. If God wanted to define different methods of prayer, I am quite sure He would have been able to do it, don't you think?
Protestants always say something similar for many things. God ought to have and God would have. But we have revealed Scripture and you should be satisfied with it. If God did not define further that doesn't mean He forbid us defining further.

I am quite sure God has a dictionary. However He said PRAYER...
Yeah. He said this is how you ought to pray to God. He didn't say this is how you ought to pray to the Saints nor did He forbid praying to the Saints.

This is how you PRAY....that is what Jesus said.
But He did not forbid praying to the Saints.

Mary and Saints are not mentioned ANYWHERE in the bible as people in heaven to direct prayers to.
I've already addressed that objection in my response. Mary is frequently mentioned and Jesus Himself as her Son, requested many things of her. As for the Saints, Jesus is our example on the Mountain of Transfiguration where He communicated with Moses and Elijah.

Sincerely,

De Maria

2 comments:

  1. This is the main problem with many protest-ants; they equate 'prayer" with "worship". They are completely different. The Scriptures make this point clear. Yes, prayer is part of a liturgical service, but it is not the only element involved in worshiping God.

    God Bless and keep up the great work!

    ReplyDelete
  2. Its as though they are tied to the Old Testament. They can't understand and move into the New Dispensation of Jesus Christ.

    PROTESTANTS! Listen up:

    Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

    We are not on that mountain anymore. We are on this one:

    22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    We now live amongst the Saints and the Angels. They are our family in the household of God.

    ReplyDelete

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