Hi Terry,
I was blissfully reading through Ray’s website when I ran across this comment, to which apparently, no one responded. Soooo…here’s my attempt.
You said,
Terry July 19, 2008 at 2:22 AMHi Steve, we are really saved by the Lord Jesus alone – not the Lord Jesus plus are own works .
That’s a false dichotomy Terry. Have you not read in Scripture?
Philippians 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
King James Version (KJV)
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The works which we do in obedience to Christ for our salvation are in fact God’s work through us.
However if a person has faith then good works will be present.
That is the Catholic Teaching.
Please consider the following passage and my bried comment.
Romans 5:6 “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
When we were powerless means when we were without grace.
Christ died for the ungodly means that Christ died for all men. Ungodly means mortal.
Christ died for the ungodly means that Christ died for all men. Ungodly means mortal.
7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die.
Christ died not just for the good but also for the wicked, that they might be repent and turn to God:
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
And this, through no work of our own. This is the salvation apart from works to which St. Paul so frequently refers. Christ died for us because it was in the eternal plan of God. Christ died as an example that we should follow in His steps:
1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Christ died that we would take up our Cross and also be saved:
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
But this is no teaching about faith alone. It is by the grace of God that Jesus came to this earth, the only begotten Son of God, to die on the Cross that we might have life. Without any effort on our part. In fact, He came because so many men were not making any effort to do the good works of God and He provided the example they needed in order to turn to the Father and be saved.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
We-means the Baptized believers in Christ.
Justified by His blood-means justified in the Sacraments of Christ.
Saved from God’s wrath through Him-means by obedience to His Commands:
John 14:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Justified by His blood-means justified in the Sacraments of Christ.
Saved from God’s wrath through Him-means by obedience to His Commands:
John 14:21-23
King James Version (KJV)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
10 For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
When we were God’s enemies means when we were living in the flesh, sinning without repentance:
Romans 6:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 6:16-17
King James Version (KJV)
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
What Paul is saying is that if God did the greater that is – saved us when we were powerless while we were ungodly sinners and his enemies then how much more shall we be saved now we are his children and part of His family.
St. Paul is taking poetic license. God does not save unrepentant sinners. God saves REPENTANT SINNERS. God saves the righteous. God saves those who have kept His Commandments:
Romans 2:1-7
King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 2:1-7
King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Having become a child of God,
First you must be Baptized. Prior to that you must have accepted the grace of conversion, which is the gift of faith (Rom 4:16), turned to God and begun to seek Him (Rom 5:2, Heb 11:6). And then, seeking Him, studied to show yourself approved (2 Tim 2:15). And then, having learned God’s will, repented of your sins and begun to do the works which God prepared from the beginning (Eph 2:8-10, Acts 26:20)
the Ten Commandments. And then, request Baptism from the Church believing that God can do that which He promised (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16). Then one becomes a child of God having been washed and renewed by the Holy Spirit in Baptism (Titus 3:5).
the Ten Commandments. And then, request Baptism from the Church believing that God can do that which He promised (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16). Then one becomes a child of God having been washed and renewed by the Holy Spirit in Baptism (Titus 3:5).
having been Adopted by Him, having been joined to Christ and transferred into the Kingdom of God’s beloved Son do you think its possible that one day He could disown you, kick you out of his family and transfer you back to the kingdom of darkness. It was unthinkable for Paul.
Which Paul? Certainly not the one who wrote the New Testament Epistles:
Hebrews 10:25-31
King James Version (KJV)
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:25-31
King James Version (KJV)
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
2 Corinthians 5:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
Every blessing Terry
And to you,
Sincerely,
De Maria
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