Wednesday, October 22, 2014

That means that "the Scriptures ALONE" were not sufficient


Lutero:

All this says is the man needed someone to show him the scriptures that point to Christ.
Excellent! That means that "the Scriptures ALONE" were not sufficient. 


I mean really now...if someone doesn't have scriptures how can they know Him?
Good point. That is why the Church TEACHES the Scriptures.


So this does not prove your point.
next.....
Yes, it does. Next.


and what is the point of this? The point is that they twisted the scriptures just to justify their doctrines...JUST LIKE THE RCC
that proves nothing
next............
Nope. Like the Protestants. Next.


Again misquoted...Paul is speaking of his teachings.......\
next..........
The Scripture plainly says, "traditions". Next.


That is correct so you had best stop praying to Mary and trash your Marian dogmas! They are unscriptural and not in the bible
next.........

It is you who needs to begin to pray to Mary in obedience of Scripture. Let me show you:
Scripture says that God's will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And God wills that the Angels praise Mary:


Luke 1:26-28
King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Let's break this down:
ANGEL GABRIEL
1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.
WAS SENT FROM GOD
1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God's, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God's message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.
That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God's? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?
But, there's more. God sent the Angel to do His Will. What is His Will. Obviously, God sent the Angel to deliver a message of praise. Therefore it is God's will that the Angels praise Mary.
And there's yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, ""Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! "
still in:
Luke 1:41-45
King James Version (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Should we break this down?
1. The Holy Spirit is God the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
2. Therefore, God inspired Elisabeth to praise Mary.
3. This praise is inscribed in the Word of God for all generations.
4. Since Elisabeth is a member of the human race, then it is safe to conclude that God wills that men praise Mary.
5. And we find, again, that God praised Mary through His Saint. Saint Elisabeth praised Mary when she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. That means that it is the Holy Spirit's praise which she passed on. That is why Scripture is called the Word of God. Because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Need we say more? Let's do it anyway.
Mother of God
Luke 1:43-45
New International Version (NIV)
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!” 
Lets break this down:
1. The word "Lord" is here mentioned two times.
2. In the second instance, it is an obvious reference to God. "Blessed is she who believes that the LORD would fulfill His promises." That is an obvious reference to God.
3. Therefore, then, what could she possibly have meant when she said, "mother of my LORD"?
4. Since she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to utter these words, she must have meant what is most obvious. Is Jesus, God? Yes. Therefore, the words she uttered could also be translated, "mother of my GOD".
5. So, God explicitly teaches us, in His Word, that Mary is the Mother of God.


Is there any higher praise than that?


And finally, Scripture says: 
Matthew 6:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says,
"From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48)."


This of course is the RCC
The Pillar and Foundation of the Truth (1 Tim 3:15).


sola scriptura is not a tradition. It is scriptural, unlike your traditions
Show me from Scripture.


You are joking me right?
You don't know where that is in the bible and you claim the catholics did it. OH MY the blasphemy of it all.
I'll show you the scriptures...hope you don't mind if I copy it off another site, I don't feel like typing it all out, because there are so MANY
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Anyone who studies the bible with discernment knows this is the trinity.
The ARROGANCE of the RCC to say they made this up frankly makes me ill.
GOD DEVELOPED AND EXPLAINED THIS. HIS WORD SAYS IT

I wish you would study scripture before you quote and say these things.
Really? All that to say nothing at all? I want you to show me the definition of the Holy Trinity in Scripture. The Church used all those Scriptures to come up with the definition. I don't see the words Holy Trinity, Three Divine Persons. The definition of the Holy Trinity goes like this. The Holy Trinity means that Three Divine Persons make One God.

Now, show it to me in Scripture. Because that website, got its information from the Catholic Church. It is the Church which defined the meaning of the Holy Trinity and has taught to all the world from that time.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Tuesday, October 21, 2014

If you had studied, you would know that the Church put the Bible together

Lutero:
When Paul spoke of tradition in a positive sense, it always referred to the tradition they had already received from the apostles. There is not one indication from Scripture that new traditions should be followed or developed. Never.
Augustine:
So what apostle taught that the book of Hebrews was the inspired word of God?

Calvin: 
Is Hebrews in the bible? Yes. Does God say all scripture is inspired? Yes
Isn't it you who quoted the verse which says, "study to show yourself approved"?

If you had studied, you would know that the Church put the Bible together in the 3rd century. So, answer the question, which Apostle said that Hebrews was inspired?


Always always...not trusting God.
We trust God. That is why we believe in His Church. The Church which selected and canonized the Bible which you claim to hold in high esteem.


But OP was talking about what Paul preached and traditions.
The OP is about Sola Scriptura. And the question is directly to the point. How do you know, by Sola Scriptura, who wrote the book of Hebrews? In almost every other epistle, St. Paul identifies himself in the beginning or in the end. But there is no indication whatsoever in the Book of Hebrews. So, how do YOU know who wrote it?


How do you know they had not already received Hebrews? How do you know Hebrews was not part of what Paul preached?
We know because it is a teaching of the Church. The question for you is, how does Sola Scriptura help you to determine whether your opinion is true or not?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Monday, October 20, 2014

Therefore, obviously, some have not sinned


Lutero:

Scripture is clear, all have sinned except the Lord Jesus Christ, prayers is to our Father through Jesus Christ the only mediator.
That is not what Scripture says at all. Here is what Scripture says:

Romans 5:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Therefore, obviously, some have not sinned.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Sunday, October 19, 2014

Believing in scriptures for doctrine is Catholic Teaching


Calvina:
Believing in scriptures for doctrine and testing all doctrine against scripture is not a man made tradition. It is Gods Word.

It is also a Catholic doctrine. Notice that you did not say, Scripture alone. If you insert the word "alone" after Scripture, then it becomes a false and man made doctrine. However, one of the tests of the truth of a doctrine is to compare it to Scripture. And that is what I'm about to do with your false doctrine of sola Scriptura. I'm going to compare it to the Scripture you provided below.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness(2 tim 3:16)

2 Timothy 2:15, KJV


Lets break this down. 

First, this says, All scripture not Scripture alone. Why? Because it is not true that Scripture alone is inspired by God. So is Tradition. So is the preaching of Holy men. Here's the proof:

2 Peter 1:21-22

King James Version (KJV)

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Holy men of God were inspired by the Holy Ghost. Therefore, it is not true that Scripture ALONE is inspired of God. Here's another:
John 20:22

King James Version (KJV)

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Jesus is God and He breathed upon these men. Therefore, they are God breathed, or inspired. Again disproving the Protestant doctrine that Scripture alone is God breathed.

So, what does it mean to say that "Scripture is God breathed"? It is a poetical and shorthand way of saying that God inspired men to preach and then to write the Word of God in Scripture. But the word "alone" is an addition to the word of God by fallible and unfaithful men who put themselves above the Word of God.

Lets continue. Does the verse say that Scripture alone is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction? No. The word alone is not found anywhere. And profitable does not mean "necessary". It simply means useful. Many things are profitable for the instruction of the man of God.

Acts 20:20
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,


Many things which the Apostle Paul taught were profitable.

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
All Godliness is profitable to man's soul.
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Good works are also profitable.

But here's the kicker. All Scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. Who is doing the reproofing, correction and instruction? The Preacher or Teacher. Scripture does not preach itself. Scripture does not teach itself. Scripture does not correct those who misunderstand the Word of God written within its pages.

Scripture alone is a tradition of men.

Finally, all you really have to do is read 2 Tim 3:16 within the context it was written and you'll see that St. Paul was not writing about Scripture alone but about the passing on of the Faith by Tradition:

2 Tim 1:
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

2 Timothy 2

King James Version (KJV)

Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.




2 Timothy 4

King James Version (KJV)

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

That's about passing down Tradition. Not about handing out books.


Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Show me where that says to study the Scripture alone. Because Scripture says that:
1. it is advisable to let the Church guide us through Scripture:
Acts 8:30-32

King James Version (KJV)

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

2. In addition, Scripture says we should study the faith of other men:
Hebrews 13:7

King James Version (KJV)

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
So, show me where the verse you presented says anything about Scripture ALONE?



"And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
Acts 17:10-11, KJV


Excellent! What is the difference between the Thessalonicans and the Bereans? Is it that the Thessalonicans did not receive the Scriptures? Or that they did not receive the Traditions of Christ?
The Thessalonicans were also Jews. They already had the Scriptures. They refused to believe the Traditions of Christ taught by the Church, represented by Sts. Paul and Silas. 

Acts 17

King James Version (KJV)

Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.


The Bereans were more noble because they accepted the Traditions taught by the Church and found them in the Scriptures. That is the Catholic doctrine of Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium!


"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1, KJV


Absolutely true! That is how Luther was discovered. The Church applied the test of Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium upon his teachings and they were found wanting.


You are also wrong as we do not reject the body of Christ His church...we believe in the body of Christ, the true believers, as His church.
You reject the True Church and accept a false gathering of people who oppose the Word of God.


It is those who think they can change scripture and make up traditions that are nullifying Christ:
The Protestants, beginning with Luther, fit that description.


"The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." - Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap.
I have no idea who wrote that, but I guarantee you that it is not a teaching of the Church.


"...the church is above the Bible, and the transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.
I don't know who that is either. Here's the official teaching from the Church:
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."


"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263
That's true. Christ gave the Church authority to bind and loose:
Matthew 16:18-19

King James Version (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.



As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "DOES NOT derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. BOTH SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION MUST BE ACCEPTED AND HONORED WITH EQUAL SENTIMENTS OF DEVOTION AND REVERENCE. Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Page 31
Absolutely true! Here is what the Scripture says:
2 Thessalonians 2:14-16

King James Version (KJV)

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
....2 Thessalonians 3

King James Version (KJV)

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
That is pretty plain speaking. Hold the Traditions and stay away from those who don't.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Saturday, October 18, 2014

Call them on it!

Folks,
Protestants go around making wild claims about what is in Scripture. I guess they are confident that 99% of the people with whom they talk will take their word for it. Folks, 100% of what they say is in Scripture, if it contradicts Catholic Teaching or if it paints the Catholic Church as evil, is false. Call them on it. Have them produce the chapter and verse.
For instance, on another blog an anti-Catholic Protestant said.
…. Papal Rome is that little horn of which we were warned in Daniel 7,
It ain’t there folks. He is reading it into Scripture. Read Daniel 7 for yourself.
the apparition of “Mary” is the false prophet
Folks, the first apparition of Mary is in Scripture. And its there so that you would recognize her apparitions throughout history.
Revelation 12:1King James Version (KJV)
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
and the Eucharist is the image that we are supposed to worship, and it comes to life and has the power of speech through Eucharistic miracles (of which we are warned in Revelation 13),
I don’t remember any Eucharistic miracles where the Host came to life and speaks. The Eucharistic miracles of which I’m aware, the Host becomes Flesh and Blood. Which we believe is the Flesh and Blood of our Saviour because Scripture says:
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
AND Rev 13, mentions nothing about the Eucharist.
Let me give you some facts.
1. Eucharist means “thanksgiving”.
2. The Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord is called the Eucharist because Jesus Christ used this word when He established the Eucharist:
Mark 14:23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
3. The establishing of this Sacrament was prophecied in the Old Testament:
Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.
and the stigmata is the “noisome and grievous sore” that comes upon those who worship the image (Revelation 16:2).
Actually, the stigmata are the marks of Jesus Christ. The very first person to have these was St. Paul:
Galatians 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
And this is recorded in Scripture so that you will recognize those whom Christ has especially united to Himself throughout Church history.
So, folks, call them on it when they make their wild claims. They know nothing about Scripture and even less about Catholic Teaching, if it were possible.
Sincerely,
De Maria

Work out your own salvation


Lutero:
We don't labor for our salvation....you mock God who bought us with a price, thinking you're capable of saving yourself.....

You have no need for a Savior....Chrisitians, however, do....
on the contrary, as the Scripture says:
Philippians 2:11-13

King James Version (KJV)

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Friday, October 17, 2014

7QT's about merit, favor, faith, works, sacraments, justification, and salvation



On another blog, someone asked,

DeMaria, can you explain your idea of merit to me and how it works?

Here's how it went.


DeMaria do we not receive God’s favor in baptism?
Yes. God’s favor is grace. Therefore, we receive it in Baptism. But not for the first time. Faith itself is also a grace. It is the prevenient grace which we receive without any merit on our part. And we first receive faith when we turn to God, in conversion.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
CCC#2027 No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.
CCC#1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. “Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.
Are we not in God’s favor when we are in a state of grace?
Yes. God’s favor, is grace. In Catholic Doctrine, there are two types major categories of grace. Natural grace, which is received by all mankind. And Sanctifying grace which is received in the Sacraments.
Sanctifying grace was not given to mankind until Jesus Christ established the Sacraments. Yet, in the Old Testament, we see that Noah and others received God’s favor.
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Sooo, what is the difference. Adoption.
In the Old Testament, the Jews were not the born again children of God. So, Noah and company found grace in God as a friend of God. Where we are empowered to approach God cryng, “Abba! Father!”
are we not justified in the sacrament of baptism before doing a single work?
No.
How does that sit with your idea that God justifies the doer?
Its not my idea. Scripture says so:
Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
And this Teaching is best illustrated thus.
Have you heard it said that justification is forensic? Forensic means legally judged.
So, lets say you have two sets of people.
One set is do gooders.
One set is evil doers.
Which set is righteous in the eyes of God? Who is legally judged to be righteous?
The do gooders, right?
THAT illustrates the forensic justification in the Old Testament.
But in the New Testament, there is more. Once God forensically judges the repentant sinner, righteous, He pours into their hearts, His grace, which St. Paul refers to as His righteousness. When He does this, the man is born again, renewed and regenerated by the grace of the Holy Spirit.  This occurs in the Sacraments.
And that illustrates the justification of the New Testament, which is both, forensic and efficacious. That is why justification in the New Testament permits us to walk amongst the Saints.
That also explains the Communion of Saints. Since we walk amongst the Saints, we can communicate with them.  Read Heb 12:12-24.
Also can you explain your idea of merit to me and how it works?
I’ll try.
Are our works equal to the reward of eternal life?
No. Neither is our faith.
TRENT VI
CHAPTER VIII
HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD
But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously,
because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.
For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]


So, how do we merit eternal life?
Let’s say that a father says to his son, “if you get an “A” in math, I’ll buy you a car.”
Is the car equal to the value of the “A”? Not in real terms. But it is to the father. He has obligated himself to give this gift on these terms. He promised.
But is this is a gift?  Yes.   It is a free will gift which the father decided to give the son in order to give him incentive to get the “A”. No one twisted the father’s arm in order to force him to give this gift. He made the promise of his own free will.
So it is with works of righteousness and God. Works of righteousness do not equal eternal life in real terms.  But they do to God the Father.  Therefore, God has obligated Himself to give eternal life to those who do the works of righteousness which He wills be done.
We can’t earn eternal life because like the “A” doesn’t equal the car, our righteous works don’t equal eternal life.
But we can merit it because as the father promised to give his son the car if he got an “A”, God, Our Father, has promised that He will give us the gift of eternal life if we keep His Commandments.
I hope that helps.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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Thursday, October 16, 2014

That is the essence of faith and works


Lutero:

Of course you think you save yourself, but Philippians 2:12-13 does not teach such a thing. You are promoting a works-righteous gospel which is a different (and therefore false) gospel than Paul and the other aposgles taught. Paul said all who preach a different gospel are accursed per Gal 1:8
You keep making opinions, but the Scripture is clear. Let me print it out. I think you guys are afraid to print it out because you think people will not read them if you simply provide a verse and claim to interpret it. Here are the actual words. From your Bible even:

Philippians 2:12-13

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


There it is. Show me where that says not to save yourself by turning to God and allowing Him to work through you? That is the essence of faith and works.

Sincerely,

De Maria