Thursday, September 18, 2014

If we do the works of the spirit, we merit salvation.



Lutero:

Good point.

Catholics do this all the time so it's no wonder that they have Paul doing it. Which, of course, he really does not do. Catholics also confuse salvation with rewards so they come up with the idea that we have to earn our salvation by what we do.
Merit. Scripture is clear:

Galatians 5:17-25

King James Version (KJV)

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We merit salvation by what we do.

If we do the works of the flesh, we do not merit salvation.
If we do the works of the spirit, we merit salvation.

Simple as that.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Wednesday, September 17, 2014

I understand if you don't see the connection, because they are spiritually discerned.


Lutero:

Do you deliberately make your posts exceedingly long so that people won’t respond. I prefer a meaningful discussion myself.
If it were true that you prefer a meaningful discussion, you would respond to questions rather than ignoring them.


Therefore, because we are discussing whether or not grace is merited or given as a gift, I’ll start there.
Ok.

Also, You use too many unrelated Scripture verses in your posts. That can actually prove your lack of understanding of Scripture rather than a knowledge of it.
I use Scripture perfectly in line with what I'm saying. However, I understand if you don't see the connection:
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

Perhaps, I don’t understand the question, De Maria.
You should have said so. Otherwise it appears you want to ignore the question.

Salvation is the result of God’s grace.
Correct.

If my understanding is correct, Rome views “grace” as if it were some sort of a substance that can be dished out in quantities like grain.
More like water:
John 4:10
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

My view of God’s grace in this context is simply this, His forgiveness. Therefore, I disagree that Salvation is a type of “grace.”
You don't believe that salvation is a gift of God?

Romans 6:23

King James Version (KJV)

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord


I would agree that Salvation comes through God’s grace.
So, you're splitting hairs. Salvation is not a gift but it comes by a gift?

I fail to see the connection between faith and meriting grace. Perhaps you could elaborate.
Sure. Consider this. 

A man has no faith in Christ. Will that man receive the grace of eternal life? My answer is no. He has not pleased God therefore he has not merited any grace from God. It is written:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Yet the Bible makes no such distinction.
There's a lot of things that are not written in the Bible. Do you believe that the Holy Trinity is One God in three Divine Persons? Show me from Scripture.

Do you believe that Mark wrote the Gospel of Mark? Show me from Scripture.

It does not say that there is an initial “grace” given at baptism.
I said nothing about Baptism. But since you brought it up, grace is poured into our hearts in Baptism if we have previously cooperated with the unmerited grace of God's calling us to conversion.

Salvation cannot be a gift if the sinner has to do anything to get it.
That's a lie which Protestants propogate. There are many gifts given which are tied to performance. Do you give graduation gifts before someone graduates? Or after? That's just one example. Go to any hospital or charitable agency and you will find an entire office where the various donor wishes are recorded and assurances are provided that their wishes for the gift are being met.

If grace is merited then it cannot be grace.
Yes, it can. 


"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."(Romans 11:6)
This is a reference to the fact that the Jews thought God owed them salvation because they judged themselves saved by their works:

Luke 18:9

King James Version (KJV)

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Back in the time of Moses, the Jews had made an agreement with God:
Exodus 19:4-8

King James Version (KJV)

Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

But when He died on the Cross, Jesus fulfilled that Covenant:
Hebrews 9:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

and established the New Testament in His Blood:
Matthew 26:28

King James Version (KJV)

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



You are suggesting that Paul is talking out of both sides of his mouth.


On the contrary, that is you. In Romans 2, he clearly delineates that we must keep the Commandments in order to be saved:

Romans 2:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
But Protestants read Romans 3 and pretend that St. Paul cast aside the foundation which he set forth in Romans 2.

In Romans 2:7, Paul in no way says that God will render eternal life because of his deeds but rather he says that God will render judgment according to how a person has lived which is by faith.
Lets read Romans 2:7
Romans 2:7

King James Version (KJV)

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

There's no mention of faith there. However, we understand that it is implied. We do good, we do the works of God, because of our faith in God. And St. Paul is saying that, to all those who continue in doing good all their lives, God will give eternal life.


”For the wages of sin is death; but [u]the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [/i]
Amen!


And what of Romans 2:13?
” (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. ”   
How do you reconcile that with Romans 3:20?

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Very easily. 

We do not justify ourselves by our works or by any other means. God justifies us. But unless we obey His Word and do the good works which He commands, we won't be justified.

Note how he ends the chapter:
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We are not justified by the law, but unless we keep the law, God will not justify us. We can see this better in Romans 8:

Romans 8

King James Version (KJV)

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Note that those who walk in the spirit are subject to the law. But those who mind the flesh are at enmity with God and with His law.

And Galatians 2:16:

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.“

Again Paul is not saying that man is justified by his deeds but by faith which is also a free gift from God.
True. We are not justified by our deeds. But only those who do the deeds which God commands are justified by God. St. Paul continues in Galatians:

Galatians 5:18-25

King James Version (KJV)

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.



Note closely how all which St. Paul condemns is that which is against the Law of God. And he says that those who do those things will not go to heaven. In other words, in order to go to heaven, one must do the works which God commands and reject the works which God forbids. 

Evidence of faith is witnessed by his actions but it is not his actions that justify the sinner.
That is exactly what the Church teaches. Our actions are the evidence of our faith.

God does not give eternal life or justification to those who perform good works,
How do you reconcile those words with Romans 2:7:

Romans 2:7

King James Version (KJV)

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Here's a more modern version:


Romans 2:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;



but to those who believe in Him and who’s conduct reveals their regenerate hearts.
By their conduct means by their works. 

Really? Where does Paul make a distinction between Jews and Christians in Romans Chapter 4?
St. Paul assumes he is talking to people who know that the Jews made an agreement with God and therefore consider themselves laborers for a wage. That is why Jesus Christ also used that metaphor:

Matthew 20:1 King James Version (KJV)

1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Tuesday, September 16, 2014

Christ is our Passover, as Scripture clearly tells us.





Lutero:

With all due respect, you are showing me nothing except your desperate attempt to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Revelation 5:5 tells us, the Lamb, "the Lion of the tribe of Judah, has triumphed". That is why He alone is worthy to open the scroll. The Lord Jesus died for our sins and God has accepted Calvary as full payment for our redemption. You should also.
Do you not recall what scripture says, that before He was crucified, Jesus, when praying to His Father, said “I have brought you glory on earth bycompleting the work you gave me to do”. And at the cross, our dear savior, before giving up His Spirit, said “It is finished”.
What's finished, redemption? Then you are left out.

Yet here you are, willfully editing the infallible word of God, equating the bloodless sacrifice of your Church’s pagan ritual to the worship given to God in heaven. All because you value the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church over the infallible word of God. Repent before it's too late.
On the contrary, it is you. Christ is our Passover, as Scripture clearly tells us. And Scripture shows us that He continually offers Himself to the Father in our behalf. All you have to do is read the Scriptures with spiritual discernment:


1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why would the Lamb be standing in heaven as though slain unless Christ is offering Himself to the Father?

Revelation 5:6

King James Version (KJV)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Monday, September 15, 2014

Why is a lamb standing before the Father as though it is slain?



Lutero:

I don't care what's contained in your pagan ritual. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand.  I asked  for scriptural reference to support his allegation that Jesus is perpetually offering Himself to His Father in heaven. I'm still waiting.
It is many places. But it is spiritually discerned. 

Ask yourself, why is a lamb standing before the Father as though it is slain? He is being offered to the Father.
Who can offer a lamb in heaven? Only Christ, the Lamb of God.
What does a slain lamb represent? The Passover Lamb offered to God in remembrance of Israel's salvation.

Revelation 5:6

King James Version (KJV)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

This is my answer to the question. Note that St. John wrote this book many years after Jesus had already been crucified. And the Lamb of God continues to appear in heaven before the Father. Therefore, Jesus, the Lamb of God, perpetually offers Himself to the Father in our behalf.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Sunday, September 14, 2014

Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself on the Cross in order that we might have Him to offer to the Father

The Eucharist: Our Very Life

Lutero:

demaria,
Now it is YOU that is doing the offering of Christ.  Not taught in the NT or by the ECFs. Fabricated in the 3rd century.  YOU cannot offer Christ. Your praise OK. Yourself OK. But not Christ. His offering was once and for all and not to be repeated. Read Hebrews.
Its in Scripture. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself on the Cross and transubstantiated the bread to His flesh in order that we might have Him to offer to the Father in "eucharistia" that is, in "thanksgiving".

Malachi 1:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name,and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Leviticus 7:11-15

King James Version (KJV)

11 And this is the law of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which he shall offer unto the Lord.
12 If he offer it for a thanksgiving, then he shall offer with the sacrifice of thanksgiving unleavened cakes mingled with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and cakes mingled with oil, of fine flour, fried.
13 Besides the cakes, he shall offer for his offering leavened bread with the sacrifice of thanksgiving of his peace offerings.
14 And of it he shall offer one out of the whole oblation for an heave offering unto the Lord, and it shall be the priest's that sprinkleth the blood of the peace offerings.
15 And the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving shall be eaten the same day that it is offered; he shall not leave any of it until the morning.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Saturday, September 13, 2014

Mary is all of that and more.


Lutero:

Since you have not filled in the blanks... I'll help you out and we can all see what that looks like: .... 
Thoughts?

Sounds as though you're not really interested in what we have to say. You are more interested in attempting to mock our faith.

Hypothetical question?
More like "argument by ridicule". You are attempting to ridicule his well articulated position by forcing words into his mouth.

Pure Fatherhood
Do you want the RCc many years after your dead and gone to teach people to put their hopes in you,
We follow the example of Christ. Christ elected to put Himself in Mary's power. He put His hopes in her from the moment he was conceived


them praying to you for your help,

As an infant, He cried for her nurturing breasts and her loving arms. So, yes, in imitation of Christ, we pray for her help.


and them depending upon you for all generations?


God appointed her the mother of all who believe in Christ and keep His Commandments:
Revelation 12:17

King James Version (KJV)

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


And they are taught to Call you  the Holy, "Father of God?"
In line with the example given in Scripture:Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


You are the Mother of salvation,

Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, therefore she is the mother of our salvation.
You are the Mother of Mercy. 

Jesus is mercy incarnate. Therefore Mary is the mother of Mercy.


We know you never let anyone down, you  are the "giver of all graces" . 
Mary gave us Christ, who is the embodiment of all graces.

Holy Mother of God, full of grace, perpetually holy,

Mary is all of that and more.


Are you ok with all that?

You would be also, if you believed the Word of God.


The very best to you!
And to you!

Sincerely,

De Maria

Friday, September 12, 2014

St. Paul Center Gala and Dinner, Pittsburgh, PA




Scott and Kimberly Hahn,
The Board of Trustees, And Our Host Committee
Cordially Invite You To



Our First Annual


Gala Dinner

& Reception



Date:
Wednesday October 22, 2014

Venue:
LeMont Restaurant
Pittsburgh’s only Five-Star Diamond Award Winning Restaurant
with a spectacular view of Downtown Pittsburgh from atop Mt. Washington.

Individual Ticket for $100 Includes:

Valet parking at LeMont
Cocktail reception (6:00 pm) - cash bar

Dinner and Talk by Scott Hahn
Book signing with Scott & Kimberly Hahn, 
Mike Aquilina and Matthew Leonard
For more information
Call the St. Paul Center at 740.264.9535




DINNER & ADDRESS BY DR. SCOTT HAHN
On October 22nd we will gather to celebrate the first official feast day of our beloved pope, Saint John Paul II. Saint John Paul II inspired a whole new generation of men and women to answer God’s call and follow in his footsteps.  It was in his words that we found our mission:: “The most urgent task is that of the biblical and liturgical formation of the people of God, both pastors and faithful.” We at the Saint Paul Center are doing what we can do to accomplish this “most urgent task” — the biblical formation of the faithful and priests of the Church. Since our founding, hundreds of thousands of Catholics around the world have been touched by the work of the St. Paul Center.

We’ll also celebrate how the St. Paul Center has been answering the Pope’s call and brief you on some of our exciting plans for the future. We will also renew our call to a New Evangelization, and make possible through the generosity of our friends, the opportunity to advance our ministry at the St. Paul Center, which will make the Bible an “open book” for more Catholics than ever before.
We hope you can join us for this very special night!

To learn more about the St. Paul Center’s plans, visit our “Building for the Future Campaign.”

TO SPONSOR THE EVENT OR FOR MORE INFORMATION
CONTACT THE ST. PAUL CENTER AT 740-264-9535
OR KENBALDWIN@SALVATIONHISTORY.COM


If you are unable to join us, we would love to send you a complimentary CD of Scott Hahn's Talk Pope Saint John Paul II and the New Evangelization. Send us your regrets by using the button below. We will send you a copy as soon as it is available.



There is a discounted block of rooms available to dinner guests at the Sheraton Hotel in Station Square Pittsburgh, Pa. To obtain your discount, mention the St. Paul Center Gala while making your reservation. Discount expires on Monday, September 22, 2014. To make a hotel reservation call 800-325-3535.

Jennifer Fulwiler on Deep In Scripture 072512


Conversion Diary
  • 7QT's on the differences between Protestant and Catholics



    In my opinion, 

    the difference between the way that Catholics understand Scripture and Protestants interpret Scripture runs much deeper than the idea of a difference in the "interpretation of words". 


    Correct me if you think I'm wrong, but when a Protestant looks at Scripture, he seeks to discover in the Scripture something which he has not heretofore understood. This is why so many of them object that one must not approach Scripture with what they call, "presuppositions."



    It is not the same for a Catholic. We do not delve into Scripture to discover something which we do not know. That is why so many Catholics by pass Scripture altogether and go directly to Church Doctrine. We know that the Church has already read the Scripture and has neatly explained to us all the things which Scripture says are "hard to be understood" (2 Pet 3:16).



    When a Catholic reads Scripture, 
    first of all, he prays. We don't simply read Scripture. We pray Scripture.
    second of all, he confirms the knowledge of the Word of God which he has already learned from the Church.

    When I read Scripture, whether it be in the Douay or in the King James, I know that it means what the Catholic Church teaches. Take the word repent (i.e. penance) for instance.



    Acts 26:20 KJV 

    But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    Acts 26:20  Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
    20 But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance.



    To do penance is to do works worthy of repentance. Someone who is truly penitent, someone who is truly repentant, will want to make amends for that which he regrets doing. That is the Catholic Teaching concerning metanoia or turning to God with deep sorrow for our sins. And that is the underlying understanding that I bring to my reading of Scripture.



    This is in line with Catholic Teaching:

    113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture
     (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).



    I've been talking with Protestants for about twenty years now. And I have come to believe, that a devout Catholic who never opens the Bible understands the Word of God better than even the best Protestant preacher who has gone to the best Protestant seminaries.


    For more Quick Takes, visit Conversion Diary!













    The Teaching of the Apostles is passed down in the Catholic Church


    The Jesus Question

    Calvina:

    Where does the RC church gets its authority for ongoing revelation?

    It seems most RC's believe There is a pipeline from God to the pope..where are we told that there is ongoing prophecy or revelations
    It is Protestants who have added to the Word of God. The Catholic Church passes down the teaching of the Apostles.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria