Jesus built the Catholic Church upon the Rock of Peter

(continued from yesterday)

Lutero:

I do not believe scriptures are the sole authority for the church,

Then you don't agree with Sola Scriptura?

I believe God is.

Can God not appoint rulers in His Church whom we must obey?

Hebrews 13:17

King James Version (KJV)
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Can God not inspire these rulers to speak infallibly today as He did yesterday?

2 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version (KJV)
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The scriptures were meant to be expounded by men with the authority of God behind them. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church is a lot different than it was 1,900 years ago and the Protestants are hopelessly divided, so I do not know how the church will attain unity again.

The Catholic Church is the same Church which Jesus built upon the Rock of Peter. I believe the promise of Jesus Christ. The gates of hell have not and will never prevail upon His Church.

Matthew 16:18

King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(continued tomorrow)

Yes, St. Peter was infallible

(continued from yesterday)

Lutero
You read more into it than what is there. Jesus never declared Peter infallible.

Yes, He did.

Just read the gospels to find out how fallible all the apostles were.

They were not, as yet, functioning as the Church.

And if you answer their mistakes were before Pentecost

That is correct.

then I will remind you when Paul reprimanded Peter after Pentecost for not eating with the Gentiles because he did not want to offend the Jews.

Hm? St. Paul reprimanded St. Peter for doing what St. Paul recommended? Doesn't St. Paul say:
1 Corinthians 8:13

King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

If that is true, then are you claiming that Scripture contradicts itself? Because St. Paul wrote those words but you claim that he reprimanded St. Peter for not offending the Jews by eating pork with the gentiles.

No, Peter was not infallible.

Yes, St. Peter was infallible. Or are you saying that the Epistles of Peter are filled with error?

He was the authority that Christ put over His church after Christ departed.

Correct.

And Peter had eleven other apostles to keep him in check, in case he were to stumble.

It is the other way around. Scripture is clear:
Luke 22:30-32

King James Version (KJV)
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Let me end with this quote from Peter, himself,

"...there is no man who ought to be ashamed of this [their lack of skill], because there is no man who ought to profess that he knows all things; for there is only One who knows all things, even He who also made all things. For if our Master declared that He knew not the day and the hour whose signs even He foretold, and referred the whole to the Father, how shall we account it disgraceful to confess that we are ignorant of some things, since in this we have the example of our Master? But this only we profess, that we know those things which we have learned from the true Prophet; and that those things have been delivered to us by the true Prophet, which He judged to be sufficient for human knowledge." Peter,Recognitions of clement, Book 10, chapter 14

KEY WORDS

how shall we account it disgraceful to confess that we are ignorant of some things,since in this we have the example of our Master?

Clement is here comparing the office of Peter to "our Master". Who is "our Master"? Is it not Jesus Christ?

If Jesus Christ is not infallible, then you are correct. But I believe Jesus Christ is infallible. And the office of the Papacy holds His representative on earth and is therefore infallible by virtue of His infallibility.

That is why He signified it with His name. The Rock.

(to be continued)

Seven Quick Takes on Peter in the Bible

Seven Quick Takes on Peter in the Bible

--- 1 ---

Jesus Christ declared the Pope infallible when He said:

Matthew 16:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

We'll go through it in detail below.  But first...

--- 2 ---

Why did Jesus give Simon the name, “Rock”? 

Perhaps you never wondered. Here’s why. Because He wanted all to know that Simon would be he to whom all must turn who want to know God’s will. There is a precedent for this in Scripture:

Exodus 7:1
King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Exodus 18:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.14 And when Moses’ father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?15 And Moses said unto his father in law, 
Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:

Exodus 19:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
God put Moses in a position of authority over the people. Jesus has done the same thing with Simon. God covered Moses with the Cloud, Jesus gave Simon His own name, Rock along with the keys to the Kingdom (Matt 16:18-19) and appointed him Shepherd over the Church (John 21:15-17).

--- 3 ---

In the same way, Jesus has appointed Simon as Shepherd over His flock. 

John 21:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

And in order to bring this point home, Jesus gave Simon His own name, “Rock” or “Peter”.
This is to signify the type of authority which Jesus has given to Simon. He has the authority to bind and loose in the God’s name.

--- 4 ---

Ok, let's go through it.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, 

Jesus, speaking to Simon, names him "Rock". That is the meaning of the name "Peter". Heretofore, the only Rock in Scripture has been God. Therefore, Jesus has given Simon, His own name. This is significant. It means that Simon is now God's representative upon earth. The rest follows logically.

--- 5 ---

and upon this rock I will build my church; 

Since Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that Jesus would organize His Church around St. Peter. This is why we can say that the Church is the Body of Christ. It is Christ's CORPORATION. St. Peter is the Chief Officer. The Apostles the Board of Directors.

--- 6 ---

and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Again, because Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that the Church will prevail against the gates of hell. Hell is in a state of siege from the moment that Jesus was conceived. Upon His death, Jesus stormed hell and set the captives free:
Hebrews 9:15-17

King James Version (KJV)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

From this point on, the Catholic Church which Jesus established has kept Satan in a state of siege. From the moment that any man is baptized, they are snatched out of Satan's hands and joined to the Church:

Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.….47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The Catholic Church sets the captives free in the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, the gates of hell do not prevail against that infallible institution which Jesus Christ built upon that infallible office.

--- 7 ---

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Everything which Peter binds upon earth is bound in heaven. Everything he looses upon earth is loosed in heaven. That is not only infallibility. That is also saving power. God has given the office of Peter awesome power. And all that we can do is sit back and gasp:
Matthew 9:8

King James Version (KJV)
8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

Yeah! Christ declared the Pope, infallible!

For more Quick Takes, visit Conversion Diary!

Jesus Christ declared the Pope infallible

Lutero:
Definitely, the popes have taken authority to an extreme. like I said to Ignatius earlier, the early church authority was decentralized to the bishops and the bishop of Rome was a central point of communication between the different regions. It was a later Pope who declared himself infallible.

Jesus Christ declared the Pope infallible:

Matthew 16:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Lets go through that in detail. But first, why did Jesus give Simon the name, “Rock”? Perhaps you never wondered. Here’s why.Because He wanted all to know that Simon would be he to whom all must turn who want to know God’s will. There is a precedent for this in Scripture:

Exodus 7:1
King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Exodus 18:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.14 And when Moses’ father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?15 And Moses said unto his father in law, 
Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:

Exodus 19:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
God put Moses in a position of authority over the people. Jesus has done the same thing with Simon. God covered Moses with the Cloud, Jesus gave Simon His own name, Rock along with the keys to the Kingdom (Matt 16:18-19) and appointed him Shepherd over the Church (John 21:15-17).

In the same way, Jesus has appointed Simon as Shepherd over His flock. 

John 21:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.


16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

And in order to bring this point home, Jesus gave Simon His own name, “Rock” or “Peter”.
This is to signify the type of authority which Jesus has given to Simon. He has the authority to bind and loose in the God’s name.

Ok, let's go through it.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, 

Jesus, speaking to Simon, names him "Rock". That is the meaning of the name "Peter". Heretofore, the only Rock in Scripture has been God. Therefore, Jesus has given Simon, His own name. This is significant. It means that Simon is now God's representative upon earth. The rest follows logically.

and upon this rock I will build my church; 

Since Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that Jesus would organize His Church around St. Peter. This is why we can say that the Church is the Body of Christ. It is Christ's CORPORATION. St. Peter is the Chief Officer. The Apostles the Board of Directors.

and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Again, because Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that the Church will prevail against the gates of hell. Hell is in a state of siege from the moment that Jesus was conceived. Upon His death, Jesus stormed hell and set the captives free:
Hebrews 9:15-17

King James Version (KJV)
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

From this point on, the Catholic Church which Jesus established has kept Satan in a state of siege. From the moment that any man is baptized, they are snatched out of Satan's hands and joined to the Church:

Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.….47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The Catholic Church sets the captives free in the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, the gates of hell do not prevail against that infallible institution which Jesus Christ built upon that infallible office.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Everything which Peter binds upon earth is bound in heaven. Everything he looses upon earth is loosed in heaven. That is not only infallibility. That is also saving power. God has given the office of Peter awesome power. And all that we can do is sit back and gasp:
Matthew 9:8

King James Version (KJV)
8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

Yeah! Christ declared the Pope, infallible!

(to be continued tomorrow)

Douay Genesis 38

Book Of Genesis  Chapter 38
The sons of Juda: the death of Her and Onan: the birth of Phares and Zara.

[1] At that time Juda went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Odollamite, named Hiras. [2] And he saw there the daughter of a man of Chanaan, called Sue: and taking her to wife, he went in unto her. [3] And she conceived, and bore a son, and called his name Her. [4] And conceiving again, she bore a son, and called him Onan. [5] She bore also a third: whom she called Sela. After whose birth, she ceased to bear any more.

[6] And Juda took a wife for Her his firstborn, whose name was Thamar. [7] And Her, the firstborn of Juda, was wicked in the sight of the Lord: and was slain by him. [8] Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother' s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. [9] He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother' s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother' s name. [10] And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.

[11] Wherefore Juda said to Thamar his daughter in law: Remain a widow in thy father' s house, till Sela my son grow up: for he was afraid lest he also might die, as his brethren did. She went her way and dwelt in her father' s house. [12] And after many days were past, the daughter of Sue the wife of Juda died: and when he had taken comfort after his mourning, he went up to Thamnas, to the shearers of his sheep, he and Hiras the Odollamite the shepherd of his flock. [13] And it was told Thamar that her father in law was come up to Thamnas to shear his sheep. [14] And she put off the garments of her widowhood, and took a veil: and changing her dress, sat in the cross way, that leadeth to Thamnas: because Sela was grown up, and she had not been married to him. [15] When Juda saw her, he thought she was a harlot: for she had covered her face, lest she should be known.

[16] And going to her, he said: Suffer me to lie with thee: for he knew her not to be his daughter in law. And she answered: What wilt thou give me to enjoy my company? [17] He said: I will send thee a kid out of the flock. And when she said again: I will suffer what thou wilt, if thou give a pledge, till thou send what thou promisest, [18] Juda said: What wilt thou have for a pledge? She answered: Thy ring and bracelet, and the staff which thou holdest in thy hand. The woman therefore at one copulation conceived. [19] And she arose and went her way: and putting off the apparel which she had taken, put on the garments of her widowhood. [20] And Juda sent a kid by his shepherd, the Odollamite, that he might receive the pledge again, which he had given to the woman: but he, not finding her,

[21] Asked the men of that place: Where is the woman that sat in the cross way? And when they all made answer: There was no harlot in this place, [22] He returned to Juda, and said to him: I have not found her; moreover the men of that place said to me, that there never sat a harlot there. [23] Juda said: Let her take it to herself; surely she cannot charge us with a, lie: I sent the kid which I promised: and thou didst not find her. [24] And behold after three months they told Juda, saying: Thamar, thy daughter in law hath played the harlot, and she appeareth to have a big belly. And Juda said: Bring her out that she may be burnt. [25] But when she was led to execution, she sent to her father in law, saying: By the man, to whom these things belong, I am with child. See whose ring, and bracelet, and staff this is.

[26] But he acknowledging the gifts, said: She is juster than I: because I did not give her to Sela, my son. However, he knew her no more. [27] And when she was ready to be brought to bed, there appeared twins in her womb: and in the very delivery of the infants, one put forth a hand, whereon the midwife tied a scarlet thread, saying: [28] This shall come forth the first. [29] But he drawing back his hand, the other came forth: and the woman said: Why is the partition divided for thee? and therefore called his name Phares. [30] Afterwards his brother came out, on whose hand was the scarlet thread: and she called him Zara.

The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament

Lutero: 

What Scriptures did Jesus point the people to when He was teaching the Roman Catholic Traditions for them to learn?

The Old Testament. The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ. The New Testament did not exist when Jesus was preaching. Nor did Jesus write it.

And for contexts sake, you need to keep in mind that Jesus ministry caused major controversy among the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus' teachings and practices collided with their "traditions",

That is right. The Traditions which Jesus Christ taught collided with the traditions of the Jews. 

which just like Roman Catholics, they considered their treasured "Tradtions" an expression of God's will.

Jewish traditions were an expression of God's will in the Old Testament.
Deuteronomy 6:7

King James Version (KJV)
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

But Jesus Christ fulfilled those, brought them to a close 

Colossians 2:14

King James Version (KJV)
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


and established His own which we now keep:

2 Thessalonians 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The Catholic Church is perfectly in line with Scripture

Lutero:

I'm sorry but I disagree. And don't quote the Peter rock business for saying it is. Catholic church is not the true Christian church. A church that folllows Jesus and the bible is the true church.

Then why are you afraid to compare your denominations beliefs with the Catholic Church's and compare both to the Bible. 

For instance, you believe in faith alone, right? What does Scripture say? 
James 2:24

King James Version (KJV)
²⁴ Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

THAT is explicit! YOUR denomination does not follow the Bible. Therefore your denomination is not the true church.

But the Catholic Church teaches justification by faith and works. Therefore the Catholic Church is perfectly in line with Scripture on this question. 

C'mon, lets go through, doctrine by doctrine and compare to Scripture. I guarantee, the Catholic Church is perfectly in line with Scripture. And I guarantee that every time your denomination disagrees with Catholic doctrine, it also disagrees with Scripture.

Sincerely,

De Maria

It means that he has been set apart

Ibrahim, you said:
Steve, you are a convert to Catholicism from the Evangelical church. I am a convert from Islam into Christianity at large. Converts have a tendency to react harshly against their past, thus be fanatic.

Perhaps you are projecting. I have found that converts to Catholicism from Evangelicalism or Protestantism tend to be very charitable towards their former peers.

I love Catholic books; in fact, they are mostly what I read in Arabic Christian books. But if you convert to Catholicism, you don’t have to swallow every phrase of their own. It is okay to be a Catholic convert par excellent and still have reservations on their excesses. To have excesses is human. We as humans like to give big, huge titles such as the Holy Father, the Holy of Holies, the Best in the best or the best of the West, and it even gets more interesting when you deal with a Semitic person like me, we like to exaggerate; we thrive on exaggeration. Unless an Arab like me exaggerates, he hasn’t expressed himself. So, the phrase “Holy Father” while I see it as a title of respect and it is okay, but it is still an excess in expression, and it lends to man more than what he can afford.

Respectfully, I disagree. Perhaps you didn’t read the entire explanation which Steve gave. But I thought it was excellent. The title does not imply that the Pope will never sin. It means that he has been set apart, as have all of us who are Baptized. We are set apart and in that sense “holy”. The Holy Father is set apart in a more exclusive sense, since Jesus set him apart to shepherd His people (John 21:17).

He is indeed a man like you and me, same thing like our Lord Jesus Christ in His full divinity, a man like you and me.

I’m not quite following that one. Are you saying that Jesus Christ was a man like you and I? You have not left Islam behind completely, it seems. In Christianity, we believe that Jesus is God, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

Sincerely,

De Maria

If Abraham were justified by faith “alone”, he would have been justified in Gen 12:4!

De Maria says:

August 9, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Excellent response, John. I just want to highlight one of your comments. You said:

Just one more point before I wrap this up. Joey, how can you know you are in a state of justice with God? If Abraham was not justified during the years preceeding Gen. 15:6 I have to ask what is faith? This is after Abram trusted in God and left his people, called on the name of the Lord (a very common biblical phrase requesting God’s favor including salvation) , was blessed by Melchisedek and called Abram of God most high. My point is if Abraham was not righteous by faith before God until Gen. 15:6, how can you possibly know if you are?

 

Bearing in mind that ST. PAUL says that Abraham was faithful from the moment that God called him:
Hebrews 11:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

So, John, your point is absolutely devastating to any faith “alone” proponent. If Abraham were justified by faith “alone”, he would have been justified in Gen 12:4!

Sincerely,

De Maria

Catholic Answers Conference September 2014

Anytime you want to go through Scripture

Lutero:

If you want to call being in opposition to Christ and the truths of Scripture remaining "faithful to God." Catholics always get things backwards. To them truth is apostasy and apostasy is truth.

It is the opposite. Anytime you want to go through Scripture and compare Catholic doctrine and Protestant doctrine to the Word of God, I'm ready. Here, I'll give you a foretaste.

The Catholic Church teaches us to keep the Traditions. Protestants teach people to reject the Traditions. What does Scripture say?

2 Thessalonians 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁵ Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The Catholic Church teaches us to do good deeds in order that God may grant us eternal life. Protestants claim they need only their faith. What does Scripture say?

Romans 2:1-13

King James Version (KJV)
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
² But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
³ And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
⁴ Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
⁵ But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
⁶ Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
⁷To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
⁸ But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
⁹ Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
¹⁰ But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
¹¹ For there is no respect of persons with God.
¹² For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
¹³ (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Sincerely,

De Maria

The Catholic Church formally acknowledged the NT in many councils centuries before Protestants existed.

Lutero:

demaria,

Correction. The RCC did not formally acknowledge the NT until Trent. Protestants existed before that.

Peace

Lutero?! What are you talking about? The Catholic Church formally acknowledged the NT in many councils AND OFFICIALLY PRINTED THE NEW TESTAMENT IN THE VULGATE centuries before Protestants existed.

Sincerely,

De Maria

It is the Protestants who made up those stories.

Lutero:
I see. The RCC was flawless and blameless in act and deed.

Correct.

Those bad ole Protestants, why didn't they know that they should just sit down and shut up and tolerate all of the immorality with the popes and made up stories in the church.

It is the Protestants who made up those stories.

They should just keep handing over their money in order to earn their "get out of purgatory free card" which your church called indulgences.

Let's see what Jesus said about that:

Luke 11:41

King James Version (KJV)
⁴¹ But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

Matthew 19:21

King James Version (KJV)
²¹ Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Oh my! Is Jesus saying that we can buy our way into heaven?

If you call the behavior of the Vatican remaining faithful to God, then you and I have two different definitions.

The Catholic Church is more faithful to God than any other institution that ever existed on this earth.

Sincerely,

De Maria

In Scripture, we see that infants are circumcised in the first 8 days

Lutero said:
I see no example in scriptures where infants were water baptised.

But we can easily derive this from Scripture.

In Scripture, we see that infants are circumcised in the first 8 days:
Genesis 17:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

What is the circumcision without hands? What is the circumcision of Christ? How do we put off the sins of the flesh?

Colossians 2:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:


12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

There is one answer, Baptism.
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Therefore if circumcision was given to infants, so is the circumcision without hands, Baptism.

So if an infant dies it falls into the loving arms of the Lord. I just hate the man made doctrines that the RCC teaches. God forgive them for they know not what they do.

It is the man made doctrines of the Protestants you should despise, the Catholic Church teaches the wisdom of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Protestants say, "Hold to Scripture alone!" What does Scripture actually say?

DeMaria said:

No they don't. They simply deny that they keep traditions. The difference between Protestants and Catholics is that Protestants keep the traditions of men. While Catholics keep the Traditions of Christ.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Lutero replied:

These are empty accusations, without any evidence

Well I've posted the evidence all over this forum. Here's a couple of instances.

Protestants say, "Hold to Scripture alone!" What does Scripture actually say?
2 Thessalonians 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁵ Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Protestants, "justified by faith alone!" What does Scripture actually say?

Romans 2:13

King James Version (KJV)
¹³ (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 2:24

King James Version (KJV)
²⁴ Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And many other teachings of Scripture do the Protestants twist to their own destruction:
2 Peter 3:16

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Sincerely,

De Maria