So when Jesus “the gates of hell will not prevail against it”, you mean to understand this as the whole community of human disciples in communion with St. Peter?
1. Yes. All who remain in communion with the Pope will be saved.
2. But I know what you are getting at and we will discuss it when you mention it expressly.
2. But I know what you are getting at and we will discuss it when you mention it expressly.
If not, what is it that cannot be overcome? Simply the doctrine? The people? The institution? do you see?
“If not” is not applicable.
A. The Church is still here and still preaching the Gospel.
B. All who remain in union with the Church will be saved.
C. Because all who remain in union with the Church follow the Church’s infallible teachings.
A. The Church is still here and still preaching the Gospel.
B. All who remain in union with the Church will be saved.
C. Because all who remain in union with the Church follow the Church’s infallible teachings.
When “church” is used in the NT (I would look at a concordance)
Protestants love concordances. But I note that few of them actually speak the language they are looking up. I’d rather go by the actual interpretation of someone who knows the nuances of the language.
it is almost always referring to the community of disciples.
1. “Almost” being the key word there.
2. I would disagree.
2. I would disagree.
When Jesus sent out the 12, he said “Go and make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28). This is parallel with “I will build my church”. In other words, Christ’s construction of the Church is in fact the creation of disciples through the apostolic ministry. There really is no case for limiting “Church” to be only that of it’s authoritative “institution” where the human itself is not included.
Who limited Church to that meaning? You are insinuating that I did, but I direct you back to the message where I told you the Catholic understanding.
Whether this is what you are saying or not is irrelevant even at this point.
You can’t be serious? What I’m saying is irrelevant?
I am just curious as to how we can understand “Church” in Matthew 16 as anything other than the community of disciples (whether universal or local).
Already explained.
Bill, if I was your son and I was trying to seek the truth and I began to debate with you about something, would you respond in loving, caring, gentleness, and humility “You must have bad reading comprehension”? Why insult me?
He’s not insulting you. He is saying precisely what I understood of your message. Your are ignoring what I said and making a straw man which you can knock down. Straw man arguments are false arguments.
I am performing to the best of my ability to throw out my barriers in order to have them put down. If this looks like deterministic argumentation, please allow yourself not to take it this way.
Why should he pretend that you are doing anything else? It is obvious what you are doing.
As an anglo-Catholic, I am not very comfortable at the moment being this. It is my great desire to become Catholic.
Just do it.
I might add, if you already do not know, I was born and raised Catholic. The very thing that led me away from Catholicisim in the first place is the very same thing that now keeps me away, and that it simply has very weak mechanisms (in my perspective) in sharing the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Look around. Haven’t you noticed that this is the only Church that has evangelized the world. No other Christian entity can boast of that fact.
A 7 minute homily is really miniature compared to old early Catholic fathers such as St. John Chrysostom.
Cultures change. The Eucharist is most important. Multiplication of words is not.
Back in the day, the Bishops were concerned that the people knew their faith.
They still are.
Nowadays, you get a lot of Catholics rising up and saying “Hell!?!? That’s not the God I serve. The God I serve is loving”!! or “The bible says not to judge” or “Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want to believe”.
1. You have a lot of Protestants saying that also.
2. The Church still teaches the truth. It is not the Church’s fault if people ignore or reject her teaching.
3. You have also rejected part of the Church’s teaching. So how are you better than they?
2. The Church still teaches the truth. It is not the Church’s fault if people ignore or reject her teaching.
3. You have also rejected part of the Church’s teaching. So how are you better than they?
There is a huge need for evangelization. It is my prayer that this will eventually ease my submission.
I’ll pray for that intention also.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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