The authoritative Cathollic Church

De Maria November 23, 2012 at 8:18 AM

Notice how you understand “church” to be strictly the Papacy excercising it’s infallibility.

You never asked me how I understand “church”, nor did my understanding of the word, “church” ever come up in this discussion.

I understand “church” the way the Catholic Church teaches. Depending upon the context of its use, the word “church” can be the authoritative Church or it can be the “body of believers”.

In other words, you understand “church” in matthew 16 when Jesus said “I will build my church” as not referring to the whole community of disciples (human beings) but rather the institutional office (inanimate) of the Papacy (distinct from the human being who resides in it). Try to find another reference in Scripture where this meaning is given.

You exhibit the typical Protestant either/or attitude.

In Matt 16:18, Christ means all of the above.
1. He established the entire Church upon the confession of St. Peter. In other words, in order to be a member of the Catholic Church, one must make the same confession which St. Peter made. This is why St. Peter says:
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

2. Jesus also established the hierarchy of the Church. With St. Peter being the foundational member upon whom the other officials, the other Apostles, would rely.

3, And Jesus established the office of the Papacy when He gave St. Peter the keys and the authority to bind and loose.

The fullness of the meaning of the word, church, is exhibited in those verses.

Also, if you condemn Anglicans for preaching a false gospel, then you must also condemn all others who are preaching a false gospel.

Anyone who preaches a false gospel, condemns himself.

In other words, as Vatican II said that we are separated brethren and that we are to come into the “Fullness” of the faith is completely rejected by you.

On the contrary, the reason I show the separated brethren their error is so that they may repent of their error and turn to the Church.

Scott Hahn, leading Catholic apologist, does not even take this sectarian view as you do.

Scott Hahn is an awesome apologist. Tell him that you are happy to remain outside the Catholic Church and see what he says to you. If I remember correctly, he roundly ridiculed a priest who, when he was seeking to enter the Catholic Church, told him that he should be the best Protestant he could be. The episode is well documented. Apparently, he didn’t realize how much consternation he had caused the priest. Because the recording which contained Scott Hahn’s statement is the most popular Catholic recording ever produced.

Here, he recounts the same episode in a more diplomatic tone:

One of them actually said, “Are you thinking of converting? No, you don’t want to do that. Ever since Vatican II we discourage that. The best thing you can do for the Church is just be a good Presbyterian minister.” I said, “Wait a second, Father…” “No, just call me Mike.” I said, “OK, Mike. I’m not asking you to break my arm and force me in. I think God is calling me.” He said, “Well, if you want help from me, you’ve come to the wrong man.”

Sincerely,

De Maria