Friday, October 31, 2014

7QT's on the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

Matthew Chapter 18:21-35
Peter approached Jesus and asked him,
“Lord, if my brother sins against me,
how often must I forgive him?
As many as seven times?”
St. Peter came to Jesus with a question of forgiveness.  He wanted to know how many times one should forgive his brother.

Jesus answered, “I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.
Jesus said, there is no limit to how many times you must forgive your brethren.

Then He told Peter a parable.

That is why the Kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who decided to settle accounts with his servants.
When he began the accounting,  a debtor was brought before him who owed him a huge amount.
Since he had no way of paying it back,
his master ordered him to be sold,
along with his wife, his children, and all his property,
in payment of the debt.
There was a man who owed the King a great deal of money which he could not repay.  So the King ordered the man be apprehended, he and his family.  He also ordered that he and his family be sold off in payment of the debt.

At that, the servant fell down, did him homage, and said,
‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back in full.’
Moved with compassion the master of that servant
let him go and forgave him the loan.
At this the man fell to the floor and begged for mercy, promising that he would repay the King in time.  The King was touched by this pleading and forgave the entire debt.

When that servant had left, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a much smaller amount.
He seized him and started to choke him, demanding,
‘Pay back what you owe.’  Falling to his knees, his fellow servant begged him,  ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’  But he refused.  Instead, he had him put in prison  until he paid back the debt.
Upon leaving the King's presence, the man observed a person who owed him money.  He immediately grabbed the person, choking him and demanded to be paid.  The person begged for mercy and time to pay him back.  But the man would have none of it and had the person thrown in jail.

Now when his fellow servants saw what had happened,
they were deeply disturbed, and went to their master
and reported the whole affair.
Other people saw the whole thing and went and reported to the King.

His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant!  I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to.  Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’  Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt.
Upon learning this, the King had the man seized to whom he had originally forgiven the debt.  And he said to him, "I forgave you more than you could ever repay.  Shouldn't you have learned from my example and forgiven your brother as I forgave you?  But since you did not, then you will be cast into jail until you can repay the debt you owe."  And this time, he was handed over to torturers until he should pay back the whole debt.

So will my heavenly Father do to you,
unless each of you forgives your brother from your heart.”

Jesus concluded the lesson saying, "this is what will happen to you if yon don't forgive your brothers from your heart."

The King is God of course.  And we, Christians, are the debtors who stand before the Throne of God in the Sacraments, begging God's forgiveness.  And He lavishly forgives us all our sins.  Washing them away in the waters of Baptism and in Confession, Confirmation, Eucharist, and Anointing.

But if we who have been thus forgiven turn around and hold grudges against our neighbors who have asked us their forgiveness and who perhaps do not have the ability to make amends.  Then you can forget that you ever washed your sins away in the waters of grace provided by the Holy Spirit.  You will be surprised to find yourself besieged by the devil and his angels after God refuses you entrance into the heavenly Jerusalem.

For more Quick Takes, visit Conversion Diary!

Ignatius Pew Missal
Pew Missal

Thursday, October 30, 2014

Convinced - Why would anyone become Catholic?

Lighthouse Catholic Media, new releases



Check out our newest inspiring talks

With something for everyone, this month's new releases are sure to inspire!

Journey Through Advent: Liturgical Cycle B
Get the most out of Advent by following along with Fr. Robert Barron's homilies as he unpacks the profound scripture readings for Sunday Masses throughout Advent and Christmas 2014.

Switching Sides
In this eye-opening presentation, popular writer and speaker Jennifer Fulwiler explains how her original support for abortion was based on love (and lies). Through sound logic and scientific proof, Jennifer chronicles how she came to accept the truth about abortion.

This talk includes a bonus segment taken from the popular talk entitled A Voice for the Unborn by pro-life activist and speaker Lila Rose.

Life is Worth Living Archbishop Fulton Sheen was one of the best-known and best-loved Catholic orators of the twentieth century, reaching millions of Christians and non-Christians alike through his immensely popular and Emmy award-winning television show Life is Worth Living. This presentation features three talks from that program. Learn more

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God Made Man In this Christmas themed presentation, Fr. Shannon Collins sheds new light on the biblical narratives of the birth of Jesus Christ, as well as the beautiful Christmas traditions of the Church.

The New Conversation: Changing Hearts & Minds on Abortion
Stephanie Gray is a passionate and uncompromising defender of the Catholic Faith, as well as an advocate for those who cannot speak for themselves. In this talk, Stephanie talks about the dignity of the human person through a biblical lens as she seeks the truth regarding today's pressing Life issues.

Is God on Your iPod? Is mainstream music bad for you? Can hit songs remind you of the things of God? Matt Smith discusses how we as Christians can judge all different types of music to determine whether or not it is going to lead us closer to The Good, The True, and The Beautiful... which is ultimately closer towards God.

This talk includes a bonus segment taken from the popular talk entitled Down to Earth by beloved speaker and author Mark Hart.

St. Ignatius and the Company of Jesus Seriously wounded in battle, the soldier Ignatius had a profound conversion to Christ during his period of healing and recovery. This presentation tells of his starting one of the Jesuits, and gives a graphic account of his adventures, his many encounters with popes, kings and emperors. Learn More

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The Holy men of God were inspired to write the scripture


All scripture means just that ALL
Absolutely! And it is Catholic Teaching that ALL Scripture is God breathed. But not Scripture alone.

Yes the Holy Spirit inspired men to write scripture.
Absolutely! And you have just disproven the false doctrine of Scripture ALONE.

The Holy men of God were inspired to write the scripture. That is what it means.

They were also inspired to preach, FIRST. Here, read it again:

2 Peter 1:19-21

King James Version (KJV)

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

That right the Holy Spirit inspired these men to write scripture.
God says all scripture is inspired by God.
You are disputing God?
No. You are disputing God. God says that Holy Men were inspired. But you say, "Scripture ALONE" was inspired of God. Therefore, you are disputing the Word of God.

Doesn't have to say alone. Says it is.
That's funny. If I say, "Purgatory", you'll say, "It has to say it in Scripture." But when I say, "where does it say, alone, in Scripture?" You say, "It doesn't have to say it." 

Yes I agree. And what he taught was the tradition he wrote down
Good! Thanks for the admission. Notice that you have admitted that the Scriptures are written based upon the Traditions. Therefore proving that a knowledge of Tradition is key to understanding the Scriptures. Traditions which the Church continues to teach to this day. But which you reject even though Scripture tells you to hold them (2 Thess 2:15).

good works are the result of salvation.
Good works are the result of faith. And you won't be saved unless you do the good works which God commands:
Galatians 5:6

King James Version (KJV)

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Romans 2:7

King James Version (KJV)

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

it shows good fruit...thus faith without works is dead.
ABSOLUTELY! Faith alone is dead.

no scripture is doing the reproofing, correction and instruction.
No. St. Paul is teaching St. Timothy to teach. And he also mentions that the Bible is profitable for this purpose. But never says it is necessary. Therefore, he is counseling St. Tim to always preach and teach, in or out of season, whether he has access to a Bible or not:
2 Timothy 4

King James Version (KJV)

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

It is what the Preacher or Teacher uses to disprove things like Marian dogmas.
Lol! Try it. Lets see which gets disproven first, Sola Scriptura or Marian doctrine.

Those who misunderstand need correction via the scripture, which is what I am attempting to do with you
And I, in turn, am attempting to do with you. 

WHAT?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????
Scripture is the inspired word of God.
That is Catholic Teaching.

Oh my you do read the bible yes?
 As I have demonstrated.

He was talking about his teaching which was scripture.
He was speaking of that which he taught. Look at another verse:
17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.

that is about preaching the word according to scripture
Absolutely! That is handing on Tradition by the preaching of the Church, in accordance with Scripture. That is not, Scripture alone.


De Maria

Wednesday, October 29, 2014

Genesis to Jesus

The St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology
The St. Paul Center's Journey Through Scripture
parish Bible study, Genesis to Jesus,
is coming to the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston

Dear Friend in Christ,

On November 15th, 2014, I'm sending Catholic author and Executive Director of the St. Paul Center Matthew Leonard, to join Rob Corzine,Vice President of Programs along with Raquel Lopez, Adjunct Professor [Franciscan University] and employee of the St. Paul Center and Ximena DeBroeck, Director, Office of Worship and Sacramental Formation-Department of Evangelization for the Archdiocese of Baltimore to the Archdiocese of Galveston - Houston.  They will present "Genesis to Jesus"  part of the Center's Journey Through Scripture program simultaneously in both English and Spanish. You'll experience the entire Bible study yourself and leave with all the training and materials to lead the study in your own parish in both English and Spanish.

Want to know what the Bible is all about? Well here's your chance!  We will learn about the story of salvation history exploring the covenants God made with Old Testament figures such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and David and how they are fulfilled by Christ and his Church.  By the end of the training, you'll know many of the main characters of Scripture, the overall plot, and how it all affects you now.

This Bible study seminar will both enrich you personally, as well as equip you to share the study with others. But don't just take my word for it. Listen to some past participants…people just like you:

    "This was the best study I have been to since
      I became Catholic almost thirty years ago."

   "Everything was given to start a parish Bible
     study. You did all the work making it easy!"

   "Great program. This is the evangelization
    of the Catholic Church that I was looking for."

Journey Through Scripture is a dynamic, parish-based Bible study series incorporating live presentation, multimedia, small group discussion and some outside reading.  It’s a way for ordinary Catholics to grow in their knowledge of the Scriptures and deepen their understanding of the riches of the Catholic faith.

The training seminar on November 15th, 2014 will be held from 8:00am to 5:00pm at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church (6646 Addicks Satsuma Road~Houston, TX 77084). Please arrive early seminar starts promptly at 8:00am.

Registration is only $55 per person which includes lunch or $39 per person if currently serving in a parish ministry at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton.  Please specify your ministry when registering.   Course materials included in English and Spanish and a certificate of completion provided as well.

For details contact Lucia Rueda at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton's Church (281) 463-7878

Additional questions? Call Guadalupe Ortiz (713) 306-2032

If you wish to register by mail:
Mail check and registration form from church website to:

St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Church
Attn: Deacon German Godoy
6646 Addicks Satsuma Road
Houston, TX 77084

Church Website:

Please join us as we enter into the Word of God and prepare to share it with the world. The New Evangelization is here, so we hope to see you there! Don't forget to bring your Bibles!

Yours in Christ,

Scott Hahn, Ph.D.

Captain America Tribute

Is there a Scripture you are having trouble lining up to Catholic Doctrine?

Is there a verse in Scripture which doesn't make sense to you?  Let me know and I'll see if I can explain it.  If nothing else, it will be good exercise for me.  I love to research Scripture and Catholic Doctrine.  And I especially love to connect the two.

Which book of the Bible is essential to salvation?

When it comes to the 'extra' books found in the Roman Catholic Bible, just exactly how did they get there?
 They are part of the Old Testament which is included in the Vulgate by St. Jerome.

Many Roman Catholics wonder why and how we can say we have the Bible and yet non-RC Bibles do not include these 'extra' books which are obviously found in theirs. What do these 'extra' books contain?
 Historical, metaphorical, wisdom and prophetic literature of the Jews.

Why are they there?
 For our spiritual edification.

Are they essential to salvation

Which book of the Bible is essential to salvation? There are many lessons in most books of the Bible which are essential to salvation.

-- and if they are not - why not?

First, you'll have to prove which books you consider essential. Then which doctrines you consider essential, for instance Sola Scriptura, is it essential. Then since you believe in Sola Scriptura, you'll have to provide the Scripture and verse proving all these things are required in Scripture.

Can Roman Catholics who really know, give some intelligent and meaningful answers to these questions?

They have continually done so. But the same confused and illogical objections and questions are repeated by Protestants.

Whereas, no intelligent or meaningful response is forthcoming concerning the justification for the doctrine of Sola Scriptura from Scripture.


De Maria

Tuesday, October 28, 2014

Perspicuity of Scripture?

Perspicuity is a big word which means, "easy to understand".  And Protestants, for the most part, claim that Scripture is easy to understand.  They call the doctrine, the Perspicuity of Scripture.  They use this doctrine to maintain that we don't need a Magisterium to tell them what Scripture means.

But, it seems to me, that perspicuity is a subjective term.  It depends upon so many things.  Reading ability, comprehension, intelligence, time to study, etc. etc.

Some people find Scripture easy to understand.  Some don't.  Some find some parts of Scripture easy to understand.  And others difficult.

So, essentially, the doctrine of Perspicuity of Scripture means nothing.  Because Scripture is not equally perspicuous to everyone.  And some people do need other people to tell them what Scripture means.

The Catholic Church teaches the Gospel of Grace

‪Proteus‬ said...IOW DM you are telling us that the covenant of works is the covenant of grace; that the gospel of works is grace.

Who said "covenant of works"? You or I. Answer: YOU.
Who said "gospel of works"? You or I.
Answer: YOU.
The Catholic Church does not teach a Covenant of works nor a Gospel of works, but the Gospel of Grace.

Uh huh.
Uh uh uh

So salvation is by keeping the law.
Salvation is by the mercy of God through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).

(Perfectly mind you, no schlock job halfway attempts admissable - which is why Christ's righteousness is indispensable.)
Everything is possible with God.

How's that working out, buddy?
God is my Judge. I don't judge myself (1 Corinthians 4:3). Do you not believe that God will judge you rightly? Why are you so concerned to judge other people and yourself that you deny God's sovereign right to judge you?

1 Corinthians 4:3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Seems like you got a little problem with the 9th commandment by the time you get through mangling everybody's comments to make them say what you want or avoid the point.

It is not I who is mangling the Word of God. It is the men whose false doctrines you follow.

The theme of Romans is either the just shall live by faith alone or it's not. Which is it?
You seem to be reading into Scripture your errors. I don't see that in Romans anywhere. Romans is clear, those who disobey God will not be saved. THAT IS THE THEME.

And don't bother trying to confuse things by bringing in sanctification. We are talking about justification.
Make the root good and the fruit follows.
The Vine, Jesus Christ, is always good. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the branches will produce good fruit.
John 15 1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: …

Sadly I am not expecting too much from the word mongering and alphabet chopping we've seen so far. It's par for the course from the spiritual dolts or bargain basement apologists that fly the Roman colors these days, as it has been in the past.
At least I'm producing Scripture. All you produce is opinions based upon the errors of the Reformers.

And to you,

De Maria

Monday, October 27, 2014

But maybe that's not perspicuous enough for you?

On another board,

Don said,

October 27, 2014 at 11:38 pm
Notice in 808 De Maria says
But the WCF says the unlearned will study and understand.
whereas the actual text says that they _may_ understand. Presumably those unlearned who may understand are not also unstable, and thus not the subject of 2 Peter 3:16.
But the verse does not say they must be both.  Or is the verse not perspicuous? Here is one Protestant commentary on the matter:
Benson Commentary2 Peter 3:16As also in all his epistles — From this it appears that Peter had read Paul’s epistles; and, as he speaks not of some but of all of them, it is probable that Paul was dead when St. Peter wrote this, namely, a little before his martyrdom, as appears from 2 Peter 1:14. And seeing that Paul, in his epistle to the Romans 2:4, and to the Hebrews 10:36Hebrews 10:38, wrote that the long-suffering of God was intended for salvation, by mentioning that circumstance, Peter intimated that he knew Paul to be the author of the epistles to the Romans, and to the Hebrews. Speaking in them of these things— Paul, in all his epistles, hath spoken of the things written by Peter in this letter. For example: he hath spoken of Christ’s coming to judgment, 1 Thessalonians 3:131 Thessalonians 4:14-182 Thessalonians 1:7-10Titus 2:13; and of the resurrection from the dead, 1 Corinthians 15:22Php 3:20-21; and of the burning of the earth, 2 Thessalonians 1:8; and of the heavenly country, 2 Corinthians 5:1-10; and of the introduction of the righteous into that country, 1 Thessalonians 4:17Hebrews 4:9Hebrews 12:14-24; and of the judgment of all mankind by Christ. In which are some things hard to be understood — According to the greatest number of MSS. the apostle does not say, εν αιςin which epistles, but εν οιςin or among which things; namely, the things which Paul had written concerning Christ’s coming to judgment, the burning of the earth, the heavenly country, and the introduction of the righteous into that country. The Alexandrian, however, and six other MSS. read here, εν αιςin which epistles. This, Beza says, is the true reading, because he thinks it would have been improper in Peter to say that Paul had written obscure ly concerning subjects of which Peter himself had written more things hard to be understood than any Paul had written in any part of his epistles, Nevertheless “the common reading may be retained, because the antecedent to the neuter relative, οις, may be a word not expressed, but understood, namely, γραμμασι, which signifies letters or epistles, Acts 28:21. On this supposition Peter’s meaning will be, In which epistles there are some things hard to be understood.” Barclay, in his Apology, explains this of the 9th chapter of Paul’s epistle to the Romans, in which there are some things that seem to be contrary to God’s long-suffering to all, and which are very liable to be perniciously wrested;  
which they that are unlearned — Who are not taught of God, or are unteachable, as Estius translates the wordαμαθεις, here used; namely, persons whose passions blind their understanding, and make them averse to the truth, or whose prejudices, indispose them to admit it: 
and the unstable — The wavering, unsettled, double-minded, or men of two minds, as St. James’s word, διψυχοι, signifies; who have no real, steady love of piety, but sometimes follow it, sometimes desert it, as good or bad inclinations happen to predominate in them. 
Whereas the stable are those who have a firm, unshaken, and warm attachment to the religion of Jesus: wrest — “The original word,στρεβλουσιν, signifies to put a person to the torture, to make him confess some crime laid to his charge, or reveal some secret which he knows. Applied to writings it signifies, by far-fetched criticisms and unsupported senses of words, to make a passage speak a meaning different from what the author intended. Hence in our language we have the expression, to torture words. Of this vice they are most commonly guilty who, from pride of understanding, will receive nothing but what they can explain. Whereas, the humble and teachable receive the declarations of revelation according to their plain, grammatical, unconstrained meaning, which it is their only care to attain, by reading the Scriptures frequently and with attention.” — Macknight. As they do also the other scriptures….
Note how he interprets that as two groups.  One unlearned and one unstable.  And not one group of unlearned who are also unstable.
But perhaps this is one of those non-perspicuous verses.  What do you think?  Is this important enough to lead to one's destruction if they get it wrong?
I would like to think there is not a deliberate misinterpretation of rather basic Protestant doctrines going on here, but based on the evidence in these comments I’m not optimistic.
I would like to hope that you aren't misinterpreting Scripture in order to justify the errors of the WCF.  But I'm not optimistic, either.

I would also like to hope that somebody does not see “due use of ordinary means” and cry “Magisterium!” but again…
I personally think it is very wise of God to have established a Church which He gave the function of being the Teacher of His Word.  As the Scripture says:

Matthew 28:19-20King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
But maybe that's not perspicuous enough for you?
Here's another:

Ephesians 3:10King James Version (KJV)

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Perspicuity of Scripture per the WCF vs the Word of God

It is strange how the Protestants claim that they follow Scripture.  Yet, their doctrines contradict Scripture directly.

For instance, the Westminister Confession of Faith (WCF) says:

VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all: yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them

Let's compare that to Scripture:

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The WCF says that the unlearned will sufficiently understand all doctrines which are important unto salvation.

2 Pet 3:16 says that the unlearned will not understand and interpret them to their own destruction.  Presumably, unto eternal damnation.  Which means that the things which they misunderstood were important for their salvation.

That seems a clear contradiction.

Which do you believe? Scripture or the WCF?

Is there, "No Salvation outside the Church"?

Is there salvation outside the Church?  The way I understand it, not in this life, but in the next, maybe.

Here's what I mean.  Scripture says:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Let's break this down.

Circumcision is nothing

This is a reference to the Old Law which required circumcision and 612 other ordinances.  Jesus annulled this law, nailing it to the cross.  These were the means of receiving grace in the Old Testament.

Uncircumcision is nothing

In my opinion, the Apostle Paul  is making reference to the Sacraments here. These are the means of receiving grace in the New Testament.

But according to the Apostle, both are null and void, IF WE DON'T KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

This is reiterated by St. James when he says:

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

So, then, a person, outside of the Church, who is caring for his fellow man, is fulfilling God's law and can be saved.  And that is why the Catholic Church teaches:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

If that's the case, what's the difference?  

Oh, it's a big difference.  Do you want to walk with the Saints, now or later?  You see, in the Sacraments our sins are washed away and we receive the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.  That is why Scripture says:

Mark 16:16 King James Version (KJV)16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And the Catechism says:
1277 Baptism is birth into the new life in Christ. In accordance with the Lord's will, it is necessary for salvation, as is the Church herself, which we enter by Baptism.
But outside the Church, there are no Sacraments.  Therefore, it is only in the Church that we can be saved and walk with the Saints because of our being saved through the Sacraments.
And those outside the Church, must wait for the Last Day, when all of us together will stand before Jesus Christ and be judged by what we did in our body, whether it was good or bad:
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
What do you think?

The Epistle of James is a canonical book

De Maria said...

I asked, "do you agree with Luther's attack against a canonical book of Scripture."

this was the answer you gave:
My response was to your question as to whether i agreed with attacking the veracity of a canonical book of the Bible, in which i pointed out that what Luther attacked was not part of your infallible canon at the time, and that he had scholarly reasons for disallowing it as Scripture, ....

Correct me if I'm wrong. But haven't you and I discussed the canon of Scripture in the past and you said that the canonical books were selected by the Holy Spirit before they were even put in the Bible by the Catholic Church?

Now you say that the Epistle of James was not a canonical book by the 15th century during Luther's lifetime?

You're digging a deeper and deeper hole.


De Maria

Sunday, October 26, 2014

Did Jesus establish a Magisterium?

On another blog, I'm having a debate with a fellow who says that Jesus did not establish a Magisterial Church.  So, I asked him, "what does this verse mean then,

Matthew 28:19-20King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

To me, that verse says that Jesus Christ commanded the Church to become a Teacher to the Nations.   And that is the definition of the word, Magisterium.  It means, "Teacher".
What do you think?

Scripture tells us to follow men who follow Jesus

Proteus said:
Your understanding has been an issue before,…. I am not much of a follower of men personally, probably to a fault,

I'm glad you said that, because Scripture says:
Philippians 3:17 
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

And therefore, the Word of God tells us to follow MEN.

and can differ as i see fit, and have limited interest in Luther but from what i know of him i see him as a man of courageous faith who provided some necessary moral and doctrinal correction,….The claims of the Catholic blogger was one of them and your attempt to equate Luther's rejection of James with the promotion of moral laity also is a stretch. 

Please quote me. Because I don't remember making any such promotion. However, I did claim that you avoid responding to questions. And this is a case in point.

Anyway, it is Rome that most evidences it believes faith without works (which signify Scripture regeneration) will save them, , because of faith in Rome to save anyone who die in her arms, and as you promote a church and not simply a faith, as we do, when Rome is reformed then less souls will leave it due to its spiritual lack.

Whether anyone leaves the Catholic Church is besides the point. The point being discussed is whether you agree with Luther that the Canonical book known as the Epistle of St. James contradicts Scripture.

It is indeed a jab, an overall statement which is based upon abundant evidence , 
Nah. Nothing but innuendo.

and as a former Catholic in a heavenly Catholic region

Amen to that. Because the Catholic Church is heaven on earth!

who personally knows both sides, becoming manifestly born again while still a Catholic, .... The more their view of the Bible is like evangelicals then the more conservative they are.

Conservative does not mean good or virtuous. And you have gone very far around the block and yet I perceive no answer to the simple question asked of you.

I have not contended that Luther did not reject James as regards what actually appropriates justification, at least initially, or as not being Scripture, but the links i provided enables more objectivity. 

Thank you. Finally an answer to the question at issue. There is nothing you can provide which can defend Luther's attack on the Word of God (i.e. his attack on the Epistle of St. James.) All you can do is justify his position.

And due to your preoccupation with an issue which does not correspond to what my “findings” show, and which required an extended exchange which requires a multiplicity of posts on a blog as this and the time it takes, and as i have lots to do, and the Catholic restriction on objectivity when things challenge their faith, i think the exchange on this topic needs to end for now.

It is your choice to write reams of non related material in order to justify Luther's attack towards a canonical book of the Bible.

De Maria