Luther:
Yes, we have been over this and you still don't get it. So Cornelius was justified by works of righteousness prior to hearing words by which he and his household will be saved?
St. Cornelius was saved by God like all the rest of us. Enduring to the end.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Titus 3:5 clearly states - that it's
not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us..
That is correct. In the washing of regeneration which is Baptism.
In Acts 10:34-35, Peter prefaced his message with a frank admission. Up to now he had believed that God's favor was limited to the nation of Israel. Now he realized that God did not respect a man's person because of his nationality. He was not implying that Cornelius was already saved based on fearing God and working righteousness apart from believing the gospel. Cornelius already worshiped the true God, but this was not enough. He lacked faith in Christ for salvation (Acts 10:36,43). Acts 10:22 - "Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to
hear words from you." What were those words? To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever
believes in Him will
receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43).
A believer will be Baptized:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Are you trying to imply that Cornelius was already saved based on his own merits? Then why did God's angel instruct him to send for Peter?
In order that St. Peter would Baptize him. Think about it. St. Cornelius had already received the Holy Spirit. The only thing that St. Peter could do for him was to Baptize him and thus God would wash away his sins and he would be born again a Child of God.
If a man can be saved without the gospel why bother to preach it?
1. Because it is God's will.
2. Because God wishes all men be saved.
3. Because the Gospel is the faith of Christ Jesus without which one can not be born again a Child of God.
There are many reasons. But I think you are asking, "what is the Christian advantage?" Frankly, the advantage we enjoy is in all those things which you reject. The Church and the Sacraments. The Sacraments are fountains of grace which Jesus Christ established so that we could live life more fully.
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
It is because of the Seven Sacraments that St. Paul says:
Hebrews 12:21And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
All who reject the Church and the Sacraments must await the Judgement before they can walk with the Saints.
Peter in reporting what had happened at Cornelius' house once he gets back to Jerusalem throws more light on why Cornelius, by the angel's direction, had been instructed to send for him. The angel had told Cornelius that "Peter shall speak words to you by which you and all your household
will be saved" (Acts 11:14). So there were words Cornelius needed to hear
in order to be saved. How does this passage highlight the necessity of baptism to be born again? Whosoever
believes in Him shall receive remission of sins (vs. 43).
Not whosoever is baptized.
Whosoever believes will be Baptized (Mark 16:16).
Those who believe and are Baptized will receive the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).
The gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on these Gentiles when they believed and prior to getting water baptized. They spoke in tongues and magnified God. They were already born again prior to being water baptized. "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (vs. 47).
That doesn't say they were born again before Baptism. Nor does it say they were saved. As I have already pointed out multiple times. Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a guarantee of salvation. Simply read Heb 6:4-6.
By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit (1 John 4:13). Because he had the Holy Spirit Cornelius abided in God and God abided in him. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe someone who has not been born again but a saved believer who has been born again - such was the case of Cornelius before he was water baptized.
Abiding in God and God abiding in him describes a person who loves God and keeps His Commandments:
1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Paul is speaking about the testing of works and says nothing about the suffering of souls.
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
He is simply teaching that in the Day of Judgment, the works of every Christian will be tested ("the fire will test each one's work") and everyone will be rewarded accordingly.
What are you thinking? That this person kept his works in his pocket? The fire will try the faith of the man which is recorded in his soul:
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Unworthy works will be burned up
What are unworthy works? They are sins:
Proverbs 11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.
and the individual will lose the reward though he himself will be saved. If fire is referring to purgatorial pains, rather than the testing of works, why should those who had built with gold, silver, precious stones suffer along with those who had built with unworthy wood, hay and straw (since the fire test each one's work)?
Have you not read in Scripture?
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Scripture sets the believer's heart to rest. "You were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Corinthians 6:11). It's not purgatory's flames that cleanse the sinner from evil. The Word of God teaches that "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin". The blood of Christ is thoroughly effective and purifies from all defilement. His blood really and actually cleanses "from all sin."
I agree. Where do you get it? I get it in the Eucharist:
Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Hebrews 1:3 - who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when
He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. Purgatory denies the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice on the cross for sin. The Roman Catholic Church, in more ways than one, teaches that Jesus is not sufficient.
On the contrary, Purgatory is pure mercy which is effected on the believer by Christ without his interference at all. God could simply let the imperfect believer go to hell. But instead, because he built a foundation upon Christ, he will be saved, by fire.
Did the thief on the cross go to purgatory or to paradise with Jesus THAT SAME DAY?
Why? Do you think that it is impossible for God? Or do you think the Thief saved himself?
How much time do people spend in purgatory according to the Roman Catholic church before they make it to heaven?
How much time to people spend on earth before they make it to heaven?
If it is bondage, it is the will of God we be bound and I accept the Will of God:
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Did Paul say that it was possible for him to be disqualified for the prize
Yes.
or to receive eternal life?
Same prize.
Any humble person who honestly compares himself to God would see their
complete need for Jesus to save them
Amen!
and not turn to supplements (rituals, sacraments, works, etc..) in addition to Jesus (Romans 3:23- 6:23).
That's a funny attitude. Jesus commanded that we perform these rituals (Luke 22:19), receive these Sacraments (Mark 16:16) and accomplish these works (Matt 25:31-46; John 14:21-24). It is because of our faith in Christ that we do these things.
Jesus needs no supplements. He is an allsufficient Savior.
There is not a question of what Jesus needs. It is a question of you needing to obey Him.
"Castaway" in the KJV. "Disqualified" in the NKJV, ESV, NASB and "disqualified for the prize" in the NIV. Paul means rejected for the prize, not for salvation. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18 , his glorying of preaching a free gospel? What have we learned about rewards? (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). Is salvation a reward based on works or a gift based on faith? (Ephesians 2:8,9). So you equate the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games to receiving eternal life? Does that sound like a gift to you? (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). Verse 24 - Do you not know that those who
run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. If we apply your logic here, many people are running in a race to earn their salvation but only one will receive eternal life.
That is your logic. The logic of St. Paul is very simple. RUN LIKE A WINNER.
Think of the Olympics. Out of all those competing in a race all run, but only one receives a gold medal. Does this mean that only the gold medalist goes to heaven and those who receive a silver or bronze medal go to hell? What about those whose works are burned up, but they are still saved? (1 Corinthians 3:13-15). Did they run in such a way to receive the prize?
How do you read Scripture? Do you read each verse as though it were completely alone without a Christian understanding to support it? Read that same verse keeping in mind this teaching:
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Now do you understand what it means to run in such a way that you will obtain it?
In light of the context this does not mean loss of salvation. Through the self righteous lens of works salvation, it only appears that way.
Keep reading. Verse 17 - For if I do this willingly, I have a
reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. No loss of salvation suggested.
Not that verse. Read the one before:
1 Corinthians 9:16For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
Keep in mind what he has said elsewhere:
1 Corinthians 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
Therefore, WOE UNTO HIM WHO IS A MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL AND DOES NOT PREACH IT.
I suspect it is explained in 2 Cor:
2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
You deny this, but your words say otherwise. Saved by commandmentment keeping, the sacraments, justified by doing the law, service of and witness to the faith etc.. WORKS.
The fact that you don't understand what I'm saying says much about the level of indoctrination you will need to overcome in order to come to the truth. God saves those who keep the Commandments. God saves those who keep the Sacraments. God justifies those who keep the Law. God saves those who show their faith in their works.
You don't save yourself by your reliance upon your faith alone or otherwise.
We are saved through faith, not works, not faith AND works. Why do you keep ignoring the lack of the word AND?
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that faith alone is dead?
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Why do you keep insisting on a doctrine which directly contradicts the Word of God?
Another misunderstanding by the Roman Catholic church which has added another work to salvation through faith. In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him for salvation. This is descriptive of a believer, not an additional requirement to become saved.
That which describes the believer is OBEDIENCE.
Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who give mere lip service confession but don't truly believe) will be denied by Christ before the Father. This is descriptive of unbelievers. Lip service confession apart from saving faith is not genuine confession.
You have just described the man who professes faith alone. He is giving mere lip service to faith in Christ since he deems unnecessary all which Christ has commanded.
I do await His Judgment to have my works tested by fire in order to receive rewards and loss of rewards, not salvation or loss of salvation (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).
That just means you have accepted Purgatory. Because Purgatory is only for those who will be saved. Notice that the wicked DO NOT GO TO PURGATORY. It is only a mercy of God extended to those who did not achieve perfection in this life.
I don't claim to know how this will turn out. God has already revealed who will be saved and who won't be saved. I don't have to wait to figure that out. He who BELIEVES IN HIM is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already.. (John 3:18).
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Either we believe and we are saved or else we don't believe and we are condemned.
That is a false gospel.
Either we believe and do the works which God commands and are saved or we don't believe and deny God and are condemned.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVES (Romans 1:16).
Keep reading:
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
But if our gospel be
hid, it is hid to them that are
lost: In whom the god of this world hath
blinded the minds of them which
BELIEVE NOT.. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
Keep reading
2 Cor 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Either we BELIEVE the gospel and we are saved or else we don't believe the gospel and we are lost. God's Word is clear on this before the Judgment. There will be many self righteous people in shock at the Judgment who thought they should be saved based on their so called many wonderful works, (they confuse this with salvation through faith) yet they will be disappointed (Matthew 7:22-23). Jesus NEVER knew them.
Amen! Keep that firmly in mind. You think you are saved, relying upon your faith alone for salvation. But God is Great! It is He who is Judge. Not you.
That is what you have read into the Scripture. But the Scripture says otherwise.
If anyone's
work is
burned, he will
suffer loss; but
he himself will be saved, (1 Corinthians 3:15). What have I read into this? It's crystal clear. He who believes in Him shall not perish, is not condemned, has everlasting life, shall receive remission of sins, is justified from all things, shall be saved (John 3:16,18; 5:24; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). Why is this not clear to you? (1 Corinthians 2:11-14).
It is quite clear to me. He that does these things will be saved. I pray that I am amongst those. But I will not rely upon my faith nor upon my works but upon the mercy of God. You on the other hand, have declared yourself saved. Obviously, you care nothing about what God thinks in regards to your salvation. YOU HAVE DECIDED. You can have your judgement. I will await God's.
If God says that we have been justified by faith (Romans 5:1) and I have faith, then I have been justified according to God, not according to me. These are His words, not mine.
You claim to have faith and justify yourself. God will reveal whether you truly have faith. God will judge.
And how many of us have perfectly obeyed the Law?
Who knows? Does any man know?
I already explained this to you more than once.
And I corrected your explanation more than once.
This verse refers to the Jews who had the law and who heard the law.
Read more. It is about Jews and Gentile. In other words, about everyone.
It is not enough just to have the law. It is not enough just to hear the law. A person must DO (obey) the law.
Thank you. Therefore, faith alone is dead.
Paul’s argument is very simple: The Jews had the law (possessed it), they heard the law, but they did not do the law, and therefore the Jews are condemned! Paul is not teaching salvation through observing the law here which is clear from Romans 3:20 - "Therefore NO ONE WILL BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIS SIGHT BY OBSERVING THE LAW; through the law we become conscious of sin." For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the
end of the law for righteousness to everyone who
BELIEVES (Romans 10:3-4). Are you ready to BELIEVE?
I already believe. It is you having trouble.
St. Paul is teaching a very simple concept. Those who are saved will be drawn from the pool of those who keep the Law. Those who are condemned will be drawn from the pool of they who do not keep the Law.
Please continue to prayerfully seek the truth.
And you as well.
Sincerely,
De Maria
