Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
DOERS OF THE LAW WILL BE JUSTIFIED.
That is Catholic Teaching. But Protestants invert that and say:
Good works are a result of justification. Example:
Good works are not the cause, but rather the result (the purpose, the fruit) of salvation.
Revelation 22:14
King James Version (KJV)
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Sincerely,
De Maria
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou said: Scripture is clear, in order to receive eternal life, one must first keep the Commandments of God:
ReplyDeleteMy reply: Protestants have their beliefs in total depravity, which is not in the Bible. We are to have Jesus’ teachings and obey them before we are saved, see John 14:23; and Acts 5:32. However, we must continue to do right and not sin after Jesus saves us, see Romans 6:1-2; and 1 John 5:18. We cannot stop sinning on our own, see Isaiah 64:5; and Romans 7:19. We cannot stop sinning unless we have the Holy Spirit, and we are to stop sinning not on our own but by the Holy Spirit, see Galatians 3:3, Romans 8:14.
Christians Truth said...
ReplyDeleteMy reply: Protestants have their beliefs in total depravity, which is not in the Bible.
Agreed.
We are to have Jesus’ teachings and obey them before we are saved, see John 14:23; and Acts 5:32.
Still agree.
However, we must continue to do right and not sin after Jesus saves us, see Romans 6:1-2; and 1 John 5:18. We cannot stop sinning on our own, see Isaiah 64:5; and Romans 7:19. We cannot stop sinning unless we have the Holy Spirit, and we are to stop sinning not on our own but by the Holy Spirit, see Galatians 3:3, Romans 8:14.
All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching.
Thanks for responding. All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching as far as Justification by faith and works goes. However there is more if you would like to continue the discussion we need to move into the Sacraments:
YOU and the Jews and all non-Catholics will only be saved to the extent that you keep the Commandments. What I mean there, is that if you intend to keep the Commandments because of your love for God, you will not keep them perfectly, but you will be saved, as by fire. See 1 Cor 3:10-15. That means you will wait until Judgement Day before you enter heaven, if you are saved.
But, if you deny that keeping the Commandments is necessary for your salvation, that is an indicator that you don't love God and you will not be saved, whether you are Jew, Gentile, Catholic, Protestant or anyone else.
However, Catholics (and the Orthodox) who love God and keep the Commandments are also privileged to receive the Sacraments, by which GOD SAVES US RIGHT HERE AND NOW. Those who receive the Sacraments walk with the Saints:
Hebrews 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Sincerely,
De Maria
You said: All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching.
ReplyDeleteThanks for responding. All that is in agreement with Catholic Teaching as far as Justification by faith and works goes. However there is more if you would like to continue the discussion we need to move into the Sacraments:
YOU and the Jews and all non-Catholics will only be saved to the extent that you keep the Commandments.
My reply: I will continue to discuss more with you, but do know that I do not believe that Catholics keep the commandments of God, and that Catholics go against the Word of God with calling their brothers ‘father,’ for elevating Mary, for making statues and bowing to them, etc.
You said: What I mean there, is that if you intend to keep the Commandments because of your love for God, you will not keep them perfectly, but you will be saved, as by fire. See 1 Cor 3:10-15. That means you will wait until Judgement Day before you enter heaven, if you are saved.
My reply: Before we continue, please clarify what you mean by “That means you will wait until Judgment Day before you enter heaven, if you are saved.” Do you mean the judgment after we each die, or do you mean at the Great White Throne Judgment?
As for 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, this is about those who are God’s fellow workers, not about the field, see 1 Corinthians 3:9. Again, it is about God’s fellow workers…the leaders, those who are bringing people to God. I am already in heaven, see John 6:56; Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1; Colossians 1:13; and, Hebrews 12:28.
You said: However, Catholics (and the Orthodox) who love God and keep the Commandments are also privileged to receive the Sacraments, by which GOD SAVES US RIGHT HERE AND NOW. Those who receive the Sacraments walk with the Saints:
My reply: Jesus says we have to obey to remain in God’s love. However, you are double-talking right now. You say those who love God keep the commandments and are PRIVILEGED to receive the sacraments; then you say it is the way God saves us. Which is it to you?
Let it be known, the Catholic's baptism is false, as is their Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick.
You said: Hebrews 12:22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
My reply: How do you think that you can use Hebrews 12:22 to support the Catholics beliefs on sacraments?
Christians Truth said...
ReplyDeleteMy reply: I will continue to discuss more with you, but do know that I do not believe that Catholics keep the commandments of God,
I remember you saying that. But I assure you that we do.
and that Catholics go against the Word of God with calling their brothers ‘father,’ for elevating Mary, for making statues and bowing to them, etc.
1. The Word of God does not forbid calling a man "father". The verse we discussed is merely a metaphor which Jesus used to emphasize the Fatherhood of God.
2. Scripture elevates Mary. We follow the example set by God in His Written Word. 3. Scripture does not forbid making statues.
4. Nor does Scripture forbid bowing before them in honor of the men and women which they represent.
My reply: Before we continue, please clarify what you mean by “That means you will wait until Judgment Day before you enter heaven, if you are saved.” Do you mean the judgment after we each die, or do you mean at the Great White Throne Judgment?
At the Great White Throne Judgement. Nothing impure will enter heaven. Therefore, the particular or immediate Judgment will result in those who are in an imperfect state of grace going through Purgatory in order to be perfectly purified in preparation for heaven.
As for 1 Corinthians 3:10-15, this is about those who are God’s fellow workers, not about the field, see 1 Corinthians 3:9.
Are you not God's fellow worker? Each and every man who builds upon Christ's foundation is a fellow worker with God. That is why the Scripture says:
...13Every man's work shall be made manifest….
Again, it is about God’s fellow workers…the leaders,
It is about any man who lays a foundation in Christ:
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
those who are bringing people to God.
Those who are cooperating with God. That includes all believers.
I am already in heaven, see John 6:56; Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1; Colossians 1:13; and, Hebrews 12:28.
Sorry friend, but you are not unless you are participating in the Sacraments. All those verses are a reference to the Sacraments whereby we were translated to the heavenly kingdom.
My reply: Jesus says we have to obey to remain in God’s love. However, you are double-talking right now. You say those who love God keep the commandments and are PRIVILEGED to receive the sacraments; then you say it is the way God saves us. Which is it to you?
Do you not realize that we are under a new Covenant? Have you not read what Scripture says?
Matthew 20:1-16 The Jews are they who agreed to labor for God (Exodus 19:6-8). We are they who come last. Because of the Sacraments, we are the last who are first.
Let it be known, the Catholic's baptism is false, as is their Eucharist, Reconciliation, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick.
On the contrary, the Catholic Sacraments are the mercy of God which saves us wherein we are washed and renewed by the grace of the Holy Spirit.
My reply: How do you think that you can use Hebrews 12:22 to support the Catholics beliefs on sacraments?
Everytime we submit to the Sacraments, we submit to a pre-judgement by God. If we submit with a false attitude, without faith, we are condemned. But if we submit with true faith, we are saved and walk amongst the Saints who dwell in Christ (Mark 16:16; 1 Corinthians 11:28-29).
Sincerely,
De Maria
You said: I remember you saying that. But I assure you that we do.
ReplyDeleteMy reply: There is no doubt that the Catholics go against the commands of God, doing things that God says not to.
You said: 1. The Word of God does not forbid calling a man "father". The verse we discussed is merely a metaphor which Jesus used to emphasize the Fatherhood of God.
My reply: Call no one ‘father’ is not a metaphor. Jesus says they are brothers. Brothers do not call each other ‘father.’ CASE CLOSED.
You said: 2. Scripture elevates Mary. We follow the example set by God in His Written Word.
My reply: Scripture does NOT elevate Mary. Mary is blessed AMONG WOMEN, NOT above women. Mary would not want to be exalted in such a way. In fact, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." Jesus replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." See Luke 11:27-28. Does that sound like Jesus wanted Mary exalted to the level that the Catholic Church has exalted her? No. Someone told Jesus, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you." Jesus replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." See Luke 8:20-21. Does it sound like Jesus wants us to elevate and worship his mother? No! CASE CLOSED.
You said: 3. Scripture does not forbid making statues.
My reply: No longer bow down to the work of your hands (see Micah 5:13). Exodus 20: 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. CASE CLOSED.
You said: At the Great White Throne Judgement. Nothing impure will enter heaven. Therefore, the particular or immediate Judgment will result in those who are in an imperfect state of grace going through Purgatory in order to be perfectly purified in preparation for heaven.
My reply: So, are you saying you do not believe any one is in heaven with Jesus now? As for you saying , “At the Great White Throne Judgment. Nothing impure will enter heaven.” WE DO NOT LIVE IN HEAVEN AFTER THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT! HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSES AWAY, AND GOD WILL MAKE THE EARTH NEW, AND WE WILL LIVE WITH GOD AND JESUS ON THE NEW EARTH.
ReplyDeleteYou said: Are you not God's fellow worker? Each and every man who builds upon Christ's foundation is a fellow worker with God. That is why the Scripture says:
...13Every man's work shall be made manifest….
Again, it is about God’s fellow workers…the leaders,
It is about any man who lays a foundation in Christ:
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Those who are cooperating with God. That includes all believers.
My reply: You are using 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 to support purgatory? However, you then say it is about the end of the world, The Great White Throne Judgment. Clarify what you mean before I continue to discuss this part with you.
I said: I am already in heaven, see John 6:56; Ephesians 2:6; Colossians 3:1; Colossians 1:13; and, Hebrews 12:28.
You said: Sorry friend, but you are not unless you are participating in the Sacraments. All those verses are a reference to the Sacraments whereby we were translated to the heavenly kingdom.
My reply: I am in heaven with Jesus. You, your ignorance, and all of your wicked religion cannot take me out of God’s hand.
You said: Matthew 20:1-16 The Jews are they who agreed to labor for God (Exodus 19:6-8). We are they who come last. Because of the Sacraments, we are the last who are first.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteContinued...
ReplyDeleteMy reply: Why are you bringing this up? This does not explain what you said. Let me ask you, do you take the eye from someone who takes yours? Do you take the tooth from someone who has taken yours? Do you believe Christians have to be circumcised? Do you believe we can be judged by what we eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day?
You said: On the contrary, the Catholic Sacraments are the mercy of God which saves us wherein we are washed and renewed by the grace of the Holy Spirit.
My reply: Your religion is wicked and evil.
You said: Everytime we submit to the Sacraments, we submit to a pre-judgement by God. If we submit with a false attitude, without faith, we are condemned. But if we submit with true faith, we are saved and walk amongst the Saints who dwell in Christ (Mark 16:16; 1 Corinthians 11:28-29).
My reply: Like I said before, you are lost and your religion is wicked. Repent for following man’s teachings. Submit only to God’s Word.
Christians Truth said...
ReplyDeleteMy reply: There is no doubt that the Catholics go against the commands of God, doing things that God says not to.
It is you who go against God.
In the rest of this message, we simply say things we've said over and over. Obviously, we disagree on nearly everything. I stand by my words as i'm sure you stand by yours. Let the read decide with whom they identify. But there is no need to continue repeating the same things.
In that regard, I will attempt to identify those things we haven't discussed and focus upon them.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Christian Truth said:
ReplyDeleteYou replied: Scripture does NOT elevate Mary. Mary is blessed AMONG WOMEN, NOT above women. Mary would not want to be exalted in such a way. In fact, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." Jesus replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." See Luke 11:27-28. Does that sound like Jesus wanted Mary exalted to the level that the Catholic Church has exalted her? No. Someone told Jesus, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you." Jesus replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." See Luke 8:20-21. Does it sound like Jesus wants us to elevate and worship his mother? No! CASE CLOSED.
You're funny. Obviously, you don't understand the Word of God. Let me explain:
Scripture says that God's will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And God wills that the Angels praise Mary:
Luke 1:
26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Let's break this down:
ANGEL GABRIEL
1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.
WAS SENT FROM GOD
1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God's, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God's message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.
That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God's? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?
cont'd
cont'd
ReplyDeleteBut, there's more. God sent the Angel to do His Will. What is His Will. Obviously, God sent the Angel to deliver a message of praise. Therefore it is God's will that the Angels praise Mary.
And there's yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, ""Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! "
still in Luke chapter 1: 41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
Should we break this down?
1. The Holy Spirit is God the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
2. Therefore, God inspired Elisabeth to praise Mary.
3. This praise is inscribed in the Word of God for all generations.
4. Since Elisabeth is a member of the human race, then it is safe to conclude that God wills that men praise Mary.
5. And we find, again, that God praised Mary through His Saint. Saint Elisabeth praised Mary when she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. That means that it is the Holy Spirit's praise which she passed on. That is why Scripture is called the Word of God. Because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Need we say more? Let's do it anyway.
Scripture says: Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says, "From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48)."
Obviously, it is God who elevates Mary in Scripture. Why don't you?
Sincerely,
De Maria
My reply: No longer bow down to the work of your hands (see Micah 5:13). Exodus 20: 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. CASE CLOSED.
ReplyDeleteStill wrong. We don't bow to the work of our hands, but to God's work in the Saints which He created. My reply: So, are you saying you do not believe any one is in heaven with Jesus now?
No. Those who died in a perfect state of grace, such as Mary and the Saints, are indeed with Jesus now.
As for you saying , “At the Great White Throne Judgment. Nothing impure will enter heaven.” WE DO NOT LIVE IN HEAVEN AFTER THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT! HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSES AWAY, AND GOD WILL MAKE THE EARTH NEW, AND WE WILL LIVE WITH GOD AND JESUS ON THE NEW EARTH.
Where God is, there is heaven.
Sincerely,
De Maria
ReplyDeleteChristians Truth said... My reply: You are using 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 to support purgatory?
1 Cor 3:10-15 explains Purgatory.
However, you then say it is about the end of the world, The Great White Throne Judgment. Clarify what you mean before I continue to discuss this part with you.
Purgatory is the state where those who die with an impure soul, but which love God, will undergo purification so that they may enter the heavenly realm on the day of Judgment. Is that enough clarification?
My reply: I am in heaven with Jesus. You, your ignorance, and all of your wicked religion cannot take me out of God’s hand.
As Scripture shows, your claim to be with Jesus is not enough. You must obey Him. And judging from your non-comprehension of Scripture, you are not doing a good job of that. However, that is not to say that you don't have good will. And Scripture says that men of good will, will be saved. But only as though fire.
Christians Truth said...
Continued... My reply: Why are you bringing this up? This does not explain what you said. Let me ask you, do you take the eye from someone who takes yours? Do you take the tooth from someone who has taken yours? Do you believe Christians have to be circumcised? Do you believe we can be judged by what we eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day?
Jesus has clarified those beliefs. The law of the Commandments is the Law of Love. We who keep the Commandments are we who love God, who are seed of the Woman and who have the testimony of Jesus ever on our lips.
Sincerely,
De Maria
You said: You're funny. Obviously, you don't understand the Word of God. Let me explain:
ReplyDeleteMy reply: Since you are sarcastic and think I am so funny, you can enjoy your blog without me.
Scripture says that God's will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
You said: And there's yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, ""Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! "
My reply: You add to God’s word. You say “the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim…” There is nothing in God’s word saying the woman was holy, there is nothing in the word of God that says the woman spoke as inspired by the Holy Spirit; however, the scriptures tell us that Jesus rebuked the woman by telling her "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
You said: Should we break this down?
My reply: Your breaking it down does show where exactly you turn and twist it into something it is not.
You said: Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says, "From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48)."
My reply: Stop adding to God’s word! Mary is blessed! And so am I and all others who hear God’s word and put it into practice! That is what Jesus says!
You said: Obviously, it is God who elevates Mary in Scripture. Why don't you?
My reply: I am done with you. After I reply to your last comments to me, let the reader know that I will stay away from this blog site.
You said: No. Those who died in a perfect state of grace, such as Mary and the Saints, are indeed with Jesus now.
My reply: You keep people from entering heaven, as you yourself do not enter.
You said: Where God is, there is heaven.
My reply: You do not care what the truth is.
You said: 1 Cor 3:10-15 explains Purgatory.
ReplyDeleteMy reply: You cannot defend your false religion, and you know you cannot. That passage is about God's wrath and the end of the world.
You said: Purgatory is the state where those who die with an impure soul, but which love God, will undergo purification so that they may enter the heavenly realm on the day of Judgment. Is that enough clarification?
My reply: I know what Purgatory is. You are ridiculous.
You said: As Scripture shows, your claim to be with Jesus is not enough. You must obey Him. And judging from your non-comprehension of Scripture, you are not doing a good job of that. However, that is not to say that you don't have good will. And Scripture says that men of good will, will be saved. But only as though fire.
My reply: I say shame on you for all your falseness. If you want to have something to do, then you can come to my blog and discuss my posts. I will not come back here to you.
I'll let the reader decide between you and I.
ReplyDeleteSincerely,
De Maria