On the contrary, it is Protestant's who have never followed the Word of God.

FH:Then I guess Catholics have no courage since they dismiss God's word in favor of following the lies of an apostate religious organization.

On the contrary, it is Protestant's who have never followed the Word of God.

Oh, that's right.....they have to submit their will and INTELLECT to the RCC....well, that 'splains it all...

Have you not read in Scripture?

Proverbs 3:5

King James Version (KJV)
⁵ Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Hebrews 13:17

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁷ Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.


Sincerely,

De Maria

Shouldn't you be asking yourself whether the decree is according to Scripture?

SK:For your church's sake, I hope they do too. But you gota admit that takes a lot of gall.

Following the Word of God takes a lot of courage. Especially with Protestants always singing a dirge:
Matthew 11:16-20

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶ But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
¹⁷ And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
¹⁸ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
¹⁹ The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
²⁰ Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 

I never knew this about churches in Germany. Protestant churches are mentioned also, but it seems the catholic church is really crying out.

http://news.yahoo.com/german-group-s...180251559.html

Here's a snippet, read the rest yourselves.

BERLIN (AP) — A Catholic reform group in Germany criticized the country's bishops Monday for declaring that believers who refuse to pay religious taxes won't be able to receive the sacrament, become godparents or work in church institutions.

Well from what I read, the protestants are not complaining. Its only the catholic bishop. Thats what the news says. I don't see you taking this stance when its something protestant in the news. By the standards of catholics, that news wpuld be true and correct and might as well be gospel truth.

Shouldn't you be asking yourself whether the decree is according to Scripture? What the complainers whine about is besides the point. The fact is that the Bishops are acting according to Christ's word:
Matthew 22:16-22

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶ And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
¹⁷ Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
¹⁸ But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
¹⁹ Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
²⁰ And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
²¹ They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
²² When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

Therefore why are you pretending that the Catholic Church is doing something wrong?

Sincerely,

De Maria

God saves those who keep the law

JW:
"No one is righteous, not even one."

That verse is talking about unbelievers:
Psalm 14:1
King James Version (KJV)
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

There is a "civil" or "outward" righteousness, but such is not moral perfection. Scripture does NOT say that these people perfectly kept all the law from the moment of conception to the moment of death.

But that doesn't seem to be important to the Holy Spirit as it is to you:
Proverbs 24:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

If "keeping the law" saves you

That's a straw man. I keep repeating

GOD SAVES THOSE WHO KEEP THE LAW. What is so hard to understand about the words "God saves"?

The problem seems to be that you want to save yourself by faith alone and you project your feeling towards us. But we don't pretend to save ourselves nor do we pretend that works save us. We await the salvation of our Lord.

(from what?)

You tell me. You're the one attributing that false sentiment to us. Whereas, I have repeatedly told you. God saves those who by faith in Him, keep the Commandments.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

and ergo you need no Savior, no mercy, no forgiveness, no Sacraments, no church (cuz you're perfect)

Again, you project your ideas unto me. I accept our Saviour and all His promises unto me through His Mercy, forgiveness, Sacraments and Church. Whereas you claim to accept Him and reject all that He has promised.

- then all I can say is, heaven is empty. Well, except for you, I guess. You and Jesus.

Your guess would be wrong. Scripture is clear that we are preceded by those whom God has approved before us and that those who accept His Church and His Sacraments walk amongst those whose spirits have been made perfect on Mount Sion:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Your WHOLE dismissal of Christ, of mercy, of forgiveness - your whole embrace of "I'm going to heaven cuz of ME" thing is one of the things many left Catholicism over, this "Look at ME!" along with "Christ is irrelevant."

You are mistaken. That is the Protestant ethic. Not Catholic. It is Protestants who claim salvation for themselves and eschew the Judgement of all mighty God. It is they who claim that the entire world is condemned except they. And in so doing they exalt themselves and commit the sin of presumption. Presuming that you are equal to or greater than God who is our Judge. In essence, it is self idolatry.

Sincerely,

De Maria

There is more than one election in Catholicism.

De Maria,Thanks for admitting your lie about the Catholic Doctrine of Election, also.

Robert:That’s no lie. Election, by definition, confesses that those who are saved will persevere. You all just make up this category of people that are predestined to grace but not to glory.

ROBERT:

That’s no lie.

Yes, it is.

Election, by definition, confesses that those who are saved will persevere.

By Protestant definition. There is only one election in Protestantism.

There is more than one election in Catholicism. There is election for justification and election for glory.

You all just make up this category of people that are predestined to grace but not to glory.

That’s my good Protestant. If you don’t like it, or don’t want it, or can’t believe it, it isn’t so. Go on living in your delusions.

However, Catholic Doctrine admits multiple elections. Whether you like it or not.

There are many types of election

DE MARIA February 12, 2015 at 11:03 pm

ROBERT February 12, 2015 at 8:31 pm

Except, of course, election to glory is the only election that ultimately matters in Romanism.

You don’t really understand English do you?

Do you know what “ultimately” means?

ul·ti·mate·ly
??lt?m?tl?/
adverb
finally; in the end.

Certainly, in the end, election to glory matters most. However, that does not remove the fact that election to grace also matters.

Which is why if you affirm election to glory, you must affirm that the elect will certainly be saved.

Non sequitur. The elect are also those who are elect to grace. Therefore, no, the elect will not certainly be saved unless they persevere to the end.

Which is why the idea of salvation now ensure salvation later isn’t completely incompatible with Romanism.

What? Salvation now ensures salvation later? Yes, that is completely incompatible with Catholic Teaching. Because salvation now is election to grace. Ultimate salvation which God reveals in the Judgement is election to glory and only granted to those who have the grace to persevere to the end.

No, I know current RC theology affirms election to justification only and election to glory. Problem is, such is not found in the Apostolic tradition.

If you know this to be true, then provide the Catholic Teaching.

Cue De Maria’s acontextual citation of a Protestant Bible translation as if he has the right to interpret the Bible for himself.

That is the Protestant MO, Robert. I interpret the Bible according to Catholic Teaching. I don’t need to provide a citation though. You do. You need to provide the official Catholic Teaching of absolute assurance of salvation for the elect unto grace and justification. Chop, chop.

That is the definition of omniscient God.

DE MARIA February 13, 2015 at 5:43 am

ROBERT February 13, 2015 at 2:12 am

Except, of course, that there is no uncertainty about who is elect unto glory except perhaps on the part of those so elected. God certainly knows who they are. And these individuals once saved, are always saved. By definition they will not finally fall away. For they are elect unto glory.

That is the definition of omniscient God. Note how the Catholic Doctrine preserves the necessity of good works and striving for election on our part. And God’s right of Judgement.

All of which can be verified in Scripture.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Contrast that with the Calvinist Doctrine which usurps God’s right of judgment and removes the necessity of cooperating with the grace of God in order to produce meritorious works.

All of which contradicts Scripture.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

We truly believe Jesus

DE MARIA February 13, 2015 at 10:04 am

You hit the nail on the head there, Michael.

You said:

Your naïve view: Jesus established the one, true, Catholic Church ® and it has taught the True Gospel, unabated since day one.

We truly believe that which Jesus Christ taught. We truly believe that He is God. And we truly believe that He gave us His flesh and blood in the Eucharist. We truly believe that He speaks through His Church. etc. etc.

Protestants consider this naive. You guys claim to have faith alone in Christ alone. But you have only faith in that which you can understand.

Whereas, we accept, by faith, all which Christ teaches, whether we understand it or not. Whether we believe it or not. Faith is not always believing. Faith is also trusting in God.

Many are called, few are chosen

DE MARIA February 13, 2015 at 8:35 am
ERIC February 13, 2015 at 7:57 am
The whole Catholic concept of “election to grace” (temporary genuine faith)

That’s a misunderstanding of Catholic Doctrine.
Election to grace is not necessarily temporary.

All who are elected to glory, were also elected to grace. Whereas, not all who are elected to grace will make their election sure and some may fall away.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

We accept grace, by our free will

DE MARIA February 13, 2015 at 2:19 pm

ERIC February 13, 2015 at 1:45 pm
James–
Get a grip. Free will is compatible with Sovereignty, with monergism. Neither cooperation nor resistance run counter to this (as they are but the fruits of Free Will). You have a deficient definition of synergism.

On the contrary, Eric, it is you. Your definition of synergism seems to change to your convenience. First, when we explain it, you equate it with Pelagianism. But when you do it, you equate it with monergism. Then, when we prove you wrong, you claim it is compatible with monergism.

And then, in a last ditch effort to make some point, you claim that we don’t understand synergism, at all.

You think Orange agrees with your side…which shows your misunderstanding of monergism,

Orange is a Council of the Catholic Church. There were no Protestants in that council.

as well as your failure to see that both operative and cooperative graces are GRACE…in their entirety.

Who denied that?

See, here’s a clear example that you never say what you intend to say and we are forced to read into your statements that which we assume you would say if you knew what you were saying.

What you really intend to say is that both operative and cooperative graces are “irresistible”. Because we accept the concept of “grace”. I assume you know and agree that we do. But we deny that grace, whether it is operative or cooperative, is “irresistible”.

Protestants deny the power of the Gospel to save

LG:I do but you don't.

You deny Jesus by your actions. What a shame.

On the contrary, it is by our actions that we prove our faith in Christ:
James 2:18

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁸ Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

No you aren't. If you believed in the blood you wouldn't need purgatory.

It is because we believe in the Blood of Christ that we believe in Purgatory. 

Here's the problem which Protestants can't overcome.

1. They don't believe anyone can be perfect in this life.
2. Scripture says that only those who are perfect will enter heaven:
Revelation 21:27

King James Version (KJV)
²⁷ And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

3. Therefore they deny themselves heaven:

Ezekiel 7:27

King James Version (KJV)
²⁷ The king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with desolation, and the hands of the people of the land shall be troubled: I will do unto them after their way, and according to their deserts will I judge them; and they shall know that I am the Lord.



4. But Scripture tells us that those who die in an imperfect state of grace will be purified by the Consuming Fire of our Lord:
1 Corinthians 3:10-15

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁰ According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
¹¹ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
¹² Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
¹³ Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
¹⁴ If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
¹⁵ If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

5. Therefore, we know that God purifies those who partake of His Blood offering:
1 Peter 1:7

King James Version (KJV)
⁷ That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:5

King James Version (KJV)
⁵ And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

You deny Jesus .

It is those who deny His Body and Blood in Holy Communion that reject Jesus:
Hebrews 10:25-31

King James Version (KJV)
²⁵ Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
²⁶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
²⁷ But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
²⁸ He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
²⁹ Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
³⁰ For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
³¹ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Please don't give me communion scriptures. Many catholics don't even take the cup at communion.

That's funny. You already know how you are refuted but you continue with your lame arguments anyway. As though you can overcome the truth by repeating a lie.

We obey Jesus by following the bible.

That is true. Lets see how well you follow the Bible. When was the last time you went to confession before a Priest?
Hebrews 13:17

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁷ Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Not made up hocus pocus.

That is what Protetants teach and which you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

by the way, the RCC is not the true church.

Yeah, it is. It is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth.

Sincerely,

De Maria