Someone said:
You say that praying to the Saints is supported in Scripture. Please produce all the Scriptures from Christ and the Apostles that support this assertion.
Will some do?
Let's start with this one:
Luke 16:24Granted, it is the prayer of a dead person to another. But it illustrates several truths which are the basis of Apostolic teaching of prayer to the Saints:
King James Version (KJV)24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
1st. Those who have died physically remain alive spiritually.
2nd. They are aware of themselves and of the things occurring on earth. In their exchange, Father Abraham and Dives (i.e. the Rich Man) show that they are cognizant of things that are happening on earth.
3rd. The authority of the Saints is recognized.
a. Dives calls Abraham “father”. And assumes that Abraham has the authority to send Lazarus here and there.
b. Abraham, on his part, does not say, “wait, let me consult with God.” He makes decisions readily. And behaves with authority.
4th. Abraham and Lazarus are pictured together. They have a personal relationship because Lazarus is resting on Abraham’s bosom.
5th. Here is the difficult part. Dives, who is not a Saint, but a resident of a place which is not remotely associated with heaven, is INTERCEDING for his brothers. ???!!! If, a person in the after life, who is not a Saint, is interceding for his brothers in this life, WHY CAN’T THE SAINTS WHO HAVE DIED IN CHRIST?
Then there's:
Matthew 10:40-42King James Version (KJV)40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.In the name of a prophet, a righteous man, or a disciple? What? Aren’t we only supposed to pray in the name of Christ? Not according to Jesus. Anyone whom He sent in His name is acceptable to Him.
And,
Hebrews 12:22-24King James Version (KJV)22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.If we are in the Church, we are already walking with the Saints in heaven. Why can’t we turn to them, then and ask for their intercession?
There are many others, but it takes spiritual discernment to understand them.
We don't need the Saints.That is besides the point. Whether we need them or not, God knows. But we have them and they are our brethren and God commands us all, including them, intercede for each other. And God says that the prayer of a just man is more efficacious. Therefore, who is more just than those whose spirits have been made perfect?
In Jesus is the fulfilment.That is true. Did you ever know that we are the Body of Christ?
Romans 12:5
King James Version (KJV)5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
The apostles were specially gifted by God to understand and reveal God's plan to include the Gentiles in His salvation. That plan has been recorded in the Scriptures.
That is true. That's why you need the Church to explain it to you. Because the Apostles, the Foundation of the Church, wrote the New Testament.
I can't. Or I would be in that Church. Here's what I see in Scripture:
First, Jesus Christ is God and He said that the Church He built would never fall (Matt 16:18). Therefore, I conclude His Church is still here today.
Second, He appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.
Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Scripture says that the Church teaches the Wisdom of God:
Is there really any need to say more? I don't think so. But there is more.
Scripture says that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth:
Scripture says:
God says that won't happen. I believe God.
Therefore, I conclude that the Church is infallible.
That is the type of church which you attend and I would love for everyone to compare the love and charity of the Catholic Church towards the Saints of God to the coldness and disdain which you show for the same:
Go on and forget about St. Stephen. We will honor him as our Father in the Faith:
Sincerely,
De Maria
The Roman Church was not so gifted by God.The Catholic Church is the Church of Scripture. Can you find a Church today, which fits the description of the Church in Scripture better than the Catholic Church?
I can't. Or I would be in that Church. Here's what I see in Scripture:
First, Jesus Christ is God and He said that the Church He built would never fall (Matt 16:18). Therefore, I conclude His Church is still here today.
Matthew 16:18
King James Version (KJV)
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Second, He appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:
Matthew 16:17-19 (King James Version) 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.
Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,The list remains the same, but now I can certainly eliminate all Protestant denominations. Back to Matt 16:18, Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church. By simple logic of elimination, that leaves only the Catholic Church. Further, the Catholic Church can produce records tracing back to Apostolic times. Therefore, I conclude that it is the Catholic Church which is described in Scripture.
Scripture says that the Church teaches the Wisdom of God:
Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,Is God's Wisdom infallible? I say yes.
Is there really any need to say more? I don't think so. But there is more.
Scripture says that the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth:
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.God is here saying that the Church always upholds the truth. I believe God.
Scripture says:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.Here the Church is depicted as keeping hell in a state of seige. And further it is said that hell will never prevail against the Church. If the Church committed errors in the mission given her by God, then the gates of hell would have prevailed.
God says that won't happen. I believe God.
Therefore, I conclude that the Church is infallible.
Stephen died early in the history of the church. The FIRST martyr.Correct.
But not one apostle, not one epistle, not one Gospel, not one verse in Acts, nothing in Revelation shows anyone at anytime praying to Stephen, honoring Stephen, venerating Stephen, kissing Stephen-statue toes, making a feast day for him, attributing supernatural powers to him, or in any way attempting to communicate with him,I wish everyone would pause right here and pay attention to this.
That is the type of church which you attend and I would love for everyone to compare the love and charity of the Catholic Church towards the Saints of God to the coldness and disdain which you show for the same:
Psalm 116:15
King James Version (KJV)15 Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.
Go on and forget about St. Stephen. We will honor him as our Father in the Faith:
Hebrews 6:12
King James Version (KJV)12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
"BEGINS WITH THE IDEA" - vain imaginations, the philosophies of men, and mythologies - and the Roman Church has a long history of inserting their human prattling and fervid imaginations and making them equivalent to Scripture.Its the other way around. God's will is our command. We do that which God wants to be done.
It's not something of which they should be proud.We are very happy to be at the service of God.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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