De Maria
Lutero:
God says that we have been justifed by faith (Romans 5:1).
But not by faith alone (James 2: 24). Doers of the Law are justified (Romans 2:13).
I don't accept anything that contradicts Scripture. Scripture says:
I have placed my faith in Christ for salvation, therfore, according to God's Word, not my words, I have been justified. My faith trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation, and not in my works. Faith (rightly understood) alone. This does not mean that my faith remains "alone" (unsolitary, unfruitful, barren) in regards to producing good works. This is James' argument. He does not teach that we are saved by works. His concern is to SHOW the reality of the faith "professed" by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith "claimed" (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Those who have been saved through faith are not doing good works in order to become saved, but because they have already been saved by an authentic faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet faith, if it is genuine, will be substantiated and confirmed by good works. It's just that simple. Not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT.
Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
James 1:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
2 Corinthians 5:9-11
King James Version (KJV)
9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
I agree, it is too simple. Those who place faith in themselves, declare themselves saved because of their self reliance. But we who rely upon Jesus, hope for our salvation in Him. We await our judgment with patience and meekness. Knowing that He is just and merciful. We don't rely upon our faith or our works. But upon Christ.
By faith "in Christ" alone. Faith in works is not faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8,9). Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, (not in our works). Therefore, having been justified by faith "apart from additions or modification" (NOTICE PAUL DID NOT SAY FAITH AND WORKS) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1). Now James is looking for the PROOF of faith. So if we really do have genuine saving faith, then our life will SHOW it (James 2:18). Works demonstrate that our faith is genuine, so we are justified by works or "shown to be righteous" by our works. No works demonstrate no faith. Faith comes first (root) then the works follow (fruit). So it is by faith that trusts "in Christ" alone for salvation (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). Simple! Too simple!
I'm getting it. But self contradicting statements are simply illogical. To say, I am saved by faith alone but not a faith which is alone, is SELF CONTRADICTING. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
I already explained this above. Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation and faith that remains "alone" in producing good works is not the same message. Are you getting it yet?
My Saviour is Christ. As for keeping the Law perfectly. Have you forgotten the Scripture which says:
If you could perfectly obey the Law. Have you done this? (Romans 3:23). Jesus said, "Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?" (John 7:19). Which of us have perfectly obeyed the Law? I don't know about you but I need a Savior.
Proverbs 24:16
King James Version (KJV)
16For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
What do you think it means?
Did I say that anyone had kept the Law perfectly?
Who said anything about denying it? The point that I have been making is that none of us have perfectly obeyed the Law.
Because God saves through faith and not by the deeds of the Law, does this make the Law useless? No. The teaching that justification is through faith and not by perfectly obeying the Law does not destroy the Law. Since nobody has ever perfectly obeyed the Law, yet Jesus Christ never once broke the Law, faith in Christ's finished work of redemption brings the ultimate respect to the Law. You keep looking to what you DO instead of looking to what Christ has already DONE.Why do you keep saying that? I look to Christ. That is why I obey Him. It is He who will judge me.
On the other hand, you keep looking to yourself. You measure your faith as though you could pour it in a cup and say, "Ah, that's enough." Only Christ can see into your soul. Not even you can judge your soul.
We, Catholics, keep our eye on Christ.
You, who believe in saving yourselves by faith alone, keep your eye on self.
The Gentiles did not have the Law of Moses, but since they do by nature the things contained in the law, they are a law unto themselves. This still does not support justification by perfectly obeying the Law. Who of us have perfectly obeyed the Law? You keep missing that point. Trying your best, obeying part of it is not perfectly obeying the Law. You need a Savior.I didn't say anything about perfectly obeying the Law.
And have any of us PERFECTLY obeyed the Law? NO! That is what I've been telling you.Proverbs 24:16
Actually I'm right. Who has perfectly obeyed the Law? Not just some, many of the Jews thought that their justification was through keeping the Law. Why do you think that Paul constantly spoke against this idea? Why are you looking to be justified by keeping the Law? How are you any different than these Jews? Difference in style maybe, but same in substance. Works based false gospel.
16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
My faith trusts in Christ alone for salvation. He alone is my Savior. What else are you trusting in to save you? What else is your Savior? Your church? Your works? Do I have to spell out the word "alone" next to faith in each of these passages of Scripture (Romans 3:22,28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..) in order to figure out that the word faith "stands alone" in connection with receiving salvation? Do these passages say faith "plus something else?" Galatians 2:16 says, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." Do I need to add the word "alone" next to Jesus Christ in this verse to figure out that Jesus Christ "stands alone" as the object of our faith in receiving salvation?That is the problem. You SPELL out alone in each of those passages. But it isn't there. You are adding the word ALONE to Scripture.
But I have produced many verses which say that unless we do the will of God, we won't be saved. Check out Matt 7:21.
Did Paul really mean to say, Jesus Christ "plus something else?" Jesus Christ plus works of the Law? You have not produced one verse which says that we are saved through faith AND WORKS or faith in Christ AND WORKS. The true Church is spiritual body of believers, not a church building with a name stamped on it that says Roman Catholic. Those who hear the Church (born again believers) will hear Him because they receive the truth from Him. Unbelievers do not regardless of where they attend church.
I already explained this. Faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) and faith that remains "alone" in producing good works (James 2:14) is not the same message. The word "alone" in both of these instances is not connected to the same thing. We are saved through faith and not by works, (our faith trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in our works) yet faith, if it is a genuine living faith, it will be substantiated and confirmed by good works (fruit, by product, demonstrative evidence of our faith). Simple! First comes faith (made alive in Christ, created in Christ Jesus - source of life in our faith - Ephesians 2:5-9) then UNTO good works (Ephesians 2:10). No works demonstrate that we have not placed our faith in Christ for salvation and have not been made alive in Christ.
Faith that works does not remain alone. Faith alone is dead.
Those who trust in their faith alone, trust in themselves. Show me how to measure faith. Do you pour it into a cup? Show me.
False accusation. My faith trusts in Christ for salvation. He is the object of my faith in receiving salvation. He said that we have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). He judges those who have faith as saved. These are His words, not mine. I have faith in Christ for salvation so He judges me saved. He said those who BELIEVE can KNOW they have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Yet, you say you can't know which demonstrates a crisis of faith. I take no credit for my salvation and I am certainly not trusting in myself for salvation. I cannot do anything to earn my salvation. I am a sinner who is in complete need of a Savior (Romans 3:23; 6:23) and that's why I have placed my faith in Christ for salvation. We are saved through faith, not works. Not because I said it but because God's Word says it.
Tell me how much faith you have. Brag on yourself. Show me.
If you only trusted in Christ for salvation, then you would not be looking to supplements to help save you. If you have to await His Judgment to find out if His Words are true (John 3:16,18; 1 John 5:13) then you are trusting in the wrong thing for salvation. Roman Catholics who are unsure about their salvation are obviously unsure if Christ is an allsufficient Savior or not. I don't measure my faith as being great faith or less than great faith. My focus is on the OBJECT of my faith in receiving salvation and that is THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Either you are trusting 100% in Him to save you or else YOU ARE NOT. God knows if we are or if we are not. God didn't say these words in (John 3:16,18; 1 John 5:13) so that we would remain clueless about our salvation status until the Judgment.
On the contrary, those who do good works with patience unto the end are they who are saved (Romans 2:7).
Amen! Good works and love are the demonstrative evidence of having been saved through faith and being a child of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother (1 John 3:10). Notice, IS NOT OF GOD. Children of God practice righteousness and love their brother BECAUSE they are children of God, not to become children of God. We must be careful not to put the cart before the horse. Saved through faith, created in Christ Jesus, then unto good works.
Sure. No one is justified by the Law. That means that one who claims to keep the Law does not justify himself thereby. Just as one who claims faith alone does not justify himself thereby.
Explain the difference.
God will justify those who have ACTUALLY kept the Law in His eyes.
Let me give an example. I don't precisely know how you do it. But you claim to possess a faith ALONE which has saved you. Somehow, you have justified yourself because you think you believe what Jesus has said and you think therefore that you are keeping the Commandments because you say that all who are saved, do so. But God has the last word. He will see into your heart and judge your faith by your deeds. Irregardless of what you claims you make for yourself.
Now, let's compare the Catholic position. We claim faith. But we don't know how to measure it as you do in order to confidently say, "we are so faithful that we are saved." We however, attempt to show our faith by our works. We don't boast to anyone about how faithful we are. We don't boast about our works. We don't measure our faith or works and say, "God will save me now." We simply go about our business OBEYING GOD. And we leave the business of judging souls to Him.
I don't know why. I never claimed sinless perfect obedience was necessary. Everyone knows that Abraham wasn't perfectly obedient. Yet Scripture says of him:
Are you trying to use this verse the same way that John says in 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.Of course, "keep" His commandments does not mean sinless perfect obedience to all that He has commanded. I think that I already explained that to you.
Genesis 26:5
King James Version (KJV)
5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
The natural man justifies himself by works. That's why he can't know for sure if he is saved because he doesn't know for sure if his works measured up or not and has to await the judgment of Christ to find out. That will be a terrible disappointment! (Matthew 7:21-23).
The one who will be terribly disappointed is the one who claims to already be saved.
None of us have perfectly obeyed the Law. That is the bottom line. Those who are saved keep His commandments (1 John 2:3) but this does not mean sinless perfect obedience. Choosing to believe in Christ for salvation is an act of obedience to the will of God which brings salvation (John 6:40) and Saving faith results in obedience to the Will of God after we have been saved through faith (1 John 2:3). Salvation by works is not the Will of God so if we are trusting in our works to save us, we have not placed our faith in Christ for salvation, and have not done the Will of God either in choosing to believe in Christ for salvation or after becoming saved.Salvation by faith and works is the will of God. Faith alone is dead and useless for salvation.
Jesus Christ is the object of our faith. That is why we work. Because He commands it.
If we have been saved through faith, then we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works. This is not saved by good works. So when does our faith save us? When we place it in Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) or not until later, AFTER we accomplish a list of good works? This will demonstrate exactly what your faith is in, what you believe in, what you are TRUSTING IN FOR SALVATION. What is the object of our faith in receiving salvation? Jesus Christ or works?
Sincerely,
De Maria
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSteve FinnellOctober 2, 2014 at 2:18 PM
DeleteINHERIT ORIGINAL SIN? BY STEVE FINNELL
Yes. We inherit the sin of Adam in the sense that we inherit a fallen nature.
If the false doctrine of original sin is true
It is true.
how would Christian parents pass it on to their children?
Through the flesh:
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 5:25-27...just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. (NKJV)How would it be possible for the church to be holy without blemish
All members of the Church are Baptized and their sin is washed away.
and be able to pass the inherited guilt of Adam's sin to children of Christian parents?
Original sin is passed on in the flesh and is washed away in Baptism. That is why we baptize infants. In order to wash Original Sin from their soul.
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said , "Behold The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (NKJV)
Baptism is a Sacrament. When we approach the Sacraments, we approach Christ and ask Him to give life to our children's souls:
Matthew 9:17-19King James Version (KJV)
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
19 And Jesus arose, and followed him, and so did his disciples.
And we have faith that Christ will do what we ask:
23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
Does Jesus take away all sin except original sin?
In Baptism, Christ takes away all our sins.
cont'd
cont'd
DeleteHe did not die for original sin. Original sin inherited by men is not found in the Bible.
It is described in the Bible.
Genesis 3:
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
If children of Christians inherit the sin of Adam then why do they not inherit the individual sins of their parents such as drunkenness, murder, adultery etc.?
They do:
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Why, because children do inherit any sin at all.
Because we inherit a fallen nature.
Men are only guilty of the sins they themselves commit.
Correct. Original Sin is not an actual sin in us. It is only an actual sin in Adam. Original Sin describes the fallen nature which we inherit.
Men die physically because of Adam's sin.
Correct.
Men die spiritually because of the their own sins.
If they don't repent. Correct.
The doctrine of total depravity and original sin that is inherited from Adam is a fabrication of men.
The doctrine of total depravity is totally different to the Doctrine of Original Sin. Two very different things. The doctrine of total depravity is a tradition of men.
How would it be possible to inherit sin from a Christian who has been cleansed of all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ?
We are cleansed of sin. But the effects of our fallen nature remain That is why St. Paul refers to a law of sin in the flesh. He was Baptized and washed away his sins callling on the name of the Lord. But he still struggled with sin. As we can see:
Romans 7:24-25King James Version (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
YOU ARE INVITED TO FOLLOW MY BLOG.
No thanks. I don't follow false teachings. Nor do I recommend them to anyone. That is why I erased your original comment.