De Maria said...
Hi Dan,
Thanks for your cordial reply.
If someone (like the licences to sin Romans 6 guy) misunderstands a passage, the best thing to do is point him to another passage, like say all of 1 John.
I think you misunderstood the question. I didn't ask what I should do. I asked "How does Scripture stop them from misinterpreting the message they find in Scripture?" A book can't correct anyone's misunderstanding.
That is indeed the function of the Church.
Agreed.
But the Church doesn't need to be infallible to do that,
It does if you want to be sure you've got the right answer.
it just needs the infallible scriptures.
If the Church can't provide an infallible response, you're back in the same boat. Three fallible opinions with the INFALLIBLE Bible powerless to correct any of them.
IF it's a real misunderstanding, and not a moral issue, then the person will read the scriptures and grow.
Besides the point. You haven't addressed the issue that the Infallible Scripture can't correct anyone's misunderstanding of its content.
I think one fundamental difference between us is that you seem to see the "difficult passages" of scripture as a weakness in scripture.
Nope.
1. The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is without error. There are no weaknesses in the Bible.
2. There are passages which some Catholics find difficult. But Protestants have many more than do we. For the most part, Scripture is pretty easy to understand for Catholics who understand the Traditions and who are familiar with the Teachings of the Magisterium.
Scripture should spoon feed us at all points. But I see it as a weakness in us. We need to grow up. Through constant use we can discern between good and evil and all that (see Hebrews 5 & 6).
If you don't get that from your parents, you probably won't get that from the Scriptures. We don't need the Scriptures to discern between good and evil. The Commandments of God are written in our hearts.
Sola scriptura is not necessary for salvation
Thank you for your honesty. Therefore, it is really a waste of time for Protestants to be constantly berating us to hold to Scripture alone. Because the Judgement will not be an open book test. God will judge our works.
Revelation 22:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.....14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Every one. Even those who claim to be saved by faith ALONE will be judged by their works.
Thanks for your cordial reply.
If someone (like the licences to sin Romans 6 guy) misunderstands a passage, the best thing to do is point him to another passage, like say all of 1 John.
I think you misunderstood the question. I didn't ask what I should do. I asked "How does Scripture stop them from misinterpreting the message they find in Scripture?" A book can't correct anyone's misunderstanding.
That is indeed the function of the Church.
Agreed.
But the Church doesn't need to be infallible to do that,
It does if you want to be sure you've got the right answer.
it just needs the infallible scriptures.
If the Church can't provide an infallible response, you're back in the same boat. Three fallible opinions with the INFALLIBLE Bible powerless to correct any of them.
IF it's a real misunderstanding, and not a moral issue, then the person will read the scriptures and grow.
Besides the point. You haven't addressed the issue that the Infallible Scripture can't correct anyone's misunderstanding of its content.
I think one fundamental difference between us is that you seem to see the "difficult passages" of scripture as a weakness in scripture.
Nope.
1. The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible is without error. There are no weaknesses in the Bible.
2. There are passages which some Catholics find difficult. But Protestants have many more than do we. For the most part, Scripture is pretty easy to understand for Catholics who understand the Traditions and who are familiar with the Teachings of the Magisterium.
Scripture should spoon feed us at all points. But I see it as a weakness in us. We need to grow up. Through constant use we can discern between good and evil and all that (see Hebrews 5 & 6).
If you don't get that from your parents, you probably won't get that from the Scriptures. We don't need the Scriptures to discern between good and evil. The Commandments of God are written in our hearts.
Sola scriptura is not necessary for salvation
Thank you for your honesty. Therefore, it is really a waste of time for Protestants to be constantly berating us to hold to Scripture alone. Because the Judgement will not be an open book test. God will judge our works.
Revelation 22:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.....14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Every one. Even those who claim to be saved by faith ALONE will be judged by their works.
, but it is important, for lots of reasons, including the fact that some who claim to speak for God have taught heresy.
The Reformers. Everyone of them.
So why do you see the Church's teaching on contraception as infallible,
Because it has been taught in Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium from the beginning.
given that doctrine has not been taught by a Pope from the the chair of Peter or a ecumenical Council in union with the Pope and the entire Church?
1. Every doctrine of the Church is infallible.
2. At certain times, the doctrines of the Church are challenged. Arius for instance, using Scripture, challenged the doctrine of the Divinity of Christ. Athanasius, using Scripture defended the Divinity of Christ. And using Tradition, proved that it was a belief always held by the Church and therefore infallible.
3. The Church judged that Athanasius was correct and the Arian heresy was defeated.
Just as the Divinity of Christ was infallible from the beginning, the doctrine against contraception is infallible. The pronouncements by the Pope and the Magisterium simply confirm that which has been true from the beginning.
My fear is that in practice, you don't restrict yourself to only unquestionably trusting the Church when they teach in the specific circumstances needed for infallibly. It's like they are and are not infallible with respect to their teaching on contraception.
Faith is stronger than fear. I trust in God and the Church which He established.
God be with you,
Dan
And with you,
De Maria
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