Tuesday, March 3, 2015

You can't give what you don't have

De Maria September 7, 2014 at 11:16 PM
Tom January 9, 2014 at 7:47 PM
I am a practicing Roman Catholic and chatechist and want to serve the Lord and worship only Him.
Good job, Tom. However, I believe you should stop being a catechist until you resolve this issue. You should not teach or pass on your doubts about the truth of Catholic Doctrine to those seeking the knowledge of the Truth. This is for the good of your own soul. The Scripture says:
Mark 9:41 And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me; it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
If we were meant to speak/pray to other believers who have died in the flesh and are now we assume to be with the Lord, wouldn’t one of the Gospel writers, or Paul, or any of the other writers of the epistles (especially Revelation) have mentioned that such a practice occurring or admonished us to do so. Our Church has taken liberties in this regard where the truth is not certain as to whether God approves of this practice and Who may be jelous that our prayers are only directed to Him.
Several things here.
1. Remember that Scripture tells us that the Church teaches the wisdom of God:
10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church,
Therefore, you are not the interpreter of the Word of God. The Church is the one whom Christ appointed to teach you His Doctrines:
Matthew 28:
19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.
2. What you haven’t noticed is that we have a New Dispensation in Jesus Christ.
a. First, Jesus Christ is our model.
b. In the Transfiguration, we see Jesus Christ speaking to Moses and Elijah:
Matthew 17:
2 And he was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow.3 And behold there appeared to them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 And Peter answering, said to Jesus: Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
3. And St. Paul reveals that we, who are baptized, now walk with the spirits of men made perfect. These are the Saints. They are walking side by side with us and they can hear us:
Hebrews 12 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:….
18 For you are not come to a mountain that might be touched, and a burning fire, and a whirlwind, and darkness, and storm, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words, which they that heard excused themselves, that the word might not be spoken to them:20 For they did not endure that which was said: And if so much as a beast shall touch the mount, it shall be stoned. 21 And so terrible was that which was seen, Moses said: I am frighted, and tremble.
22 But you are come to mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to the company of many thousands of angels, 23 And to the church of the firstborn, who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the sprinkling of blood which speaketh better than that of Abel.
Therefore, Tom, we are walking with the Saints and Angels upon Mt. Sion. And we can talk to them the way Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah upon Mount Tabor.
Many catholics, including my wife, pray to St. Anthony when they lose something of value. Strangely enough, often times they find the item in a very unusual and mysterious way that defies logic. While I am not dogmatic that this is wrong, we must be wary that this could be an example of 2 Cor 11:14, where “Satan transforms himself into an angel of light.” He does this for the purpose of steering people away from our true Lord and His gospel and he may be allowed by God to interact with us in this way when we attempt to speak to spirits (including believers and saints who have died in the flesh). We would most likely consider it as sinful if we prayed a similar prayer St. Anthony sincerely using a ouija board and invited his feedback instead of instead of attemptig to speak to him at church while also praying to God in the next sentence. Nevertheless, I digress.
Its not the same thing. When we pray to the Saints, we pray to members of the body of Christ.
When you use a ouija board, you are practicing witchcraft.
This issue seems to come down to one’s comfort in only trusting the Word of God, the Bible, as the ultimte authority on this topic, or if one is open to Church tradition as also having authority in this manner.
If the Bible were your authority, you would obey Church Tradition. Because the Bible tells you to obey your Rulers in the Church:
Hebrews 13:
7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation,
Notice that it is Priests from whom you learn the Word of God. Not from the Bible alone.
While I have on rare occasion, said the Hail Mary, etc. usually in a group setting, I am not comfortable doing so. For some Catholics such as myself and most protestant brothers, bowing our head and speaking to someone other than our God creates guilty and seems like a blasphemous act for which I must request His mercy.
First of all, don’t do anything that violates your conscience.
Second of all, if Mother Mary is good enough for Jesus Christ, she is good enough for me. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ had to ask her for food, clothes and for her loving arms? Do you not realize that He gave her to us from the Cross to be our mother? Do you not realize that all who keep His Commandments and profess His Gospel are children of Mary?
Revelation 12:
17 And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Therefore, I choose to offer my prayers to God alone, bolding approaching His throne of grace, as we are admonished to do throughout His Word.
Then it sounds as though you are no longer a Catholic. May God forgive you because you have committed the sin of Esau:
Hebrews 12:16-17Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
16…. as Esau; who for one mess, sold his first birthright.
17 For know ye that afterwards, when he desired to inherit the benediction, he was rejected; for he found no place of repentance, although with tears he had sought it.


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Another thing that I would like to address:

    Tom says: "If we were meant to speak/pray to other believers who have died in the flesh and are now we assume to be with the Lord, wouldn’t one of the Gospel writers, or Paul, or any of the other writers of the epistles (especially Revelation) have mentioned that such a practice occurring or admonished us to do so." Then Tom needs to explain the Sacrifice of the Mass and how the whole Mass is performed. Where is this written in the Scriptures. He also needs to show me how the "anointing of the sick" is really performed since the actual prescription isn't written in the Scriptures.

    Tom also needs to read the Early Church Fathers to see how far back the practice of Praying to the Saints go. Tom also needs to explain why Raphel was taking Tobbit's prayers to God and interceded for God. Tom also needs to explain why God had the three men who challenged Job, pray to Job for forgiveness then have Job pray to God on their part.

    I'm beginning to see why protest-ants don't believe in Catholic doctrines....they don't read the Scriptures.


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