Rewind: Salvation by faith and works in Scripture

Originally posted: Saturday, August 20, 2011

I am discussing faith and works salvation with Ken on the Beggars All Reformation Blog.  However, a complete response was impossible because of the character count.  For anyone interested, I am posting it here.  Ken's words are in blue and indented.:

De Maria,

Hello Ken.

Thanks for admitting up front that Roman Catholicism is a "faith plus works" salvation system.

It is the teaching of Scripture:

Romans 2:

King James Version (KJV)

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

The Romans 2:13 quote is not meant to stand alone but is in the middle of Paul's argument, which I already noted before - follow it through all the way to Romans 3:28 and even Romans 4:1-16 and 5:1-11.

I have a different understanding than yours:

Romans 2:13

(For not the he
arers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall bejustified.

In other words, doing the law doesn't automatically justify anyone. But not doing the law automatically condemns. Because those who are justified will only come from the set of people who do the works of the law.

God selects and justifies only from the group of men who do the works of the law.  Not from those who do not keep His Law.

Example:

A man is an unrepentant murderer and sinner. He will never be justified by God because he rejects the law. He will be condemned.  Scripture says elsewhere:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Therefore, if you read Romans 2, it says:

Romans 2

⁴Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

⁵But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

⁶Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

⁷To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

⁸But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

⁹Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

¹⁰But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

¹¹For there is no respect of persons with God.

A man keeps the law in obedience to Christ:

Galatians 3:24

King James Version (KJV)

²⁴Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The Revelation 22:14 passage is a textual variant.
The best manuscripts read,
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they might have the right to eat of the tree of life . . . "

In fact, that is what the Douay says.  However, in either case, whether washing one's robes or keeping the Commandments, works are highlighted as essential for eternal life.

see Rev. 7:14 - only by the washing/cleansing of the blood of the lamb - faith in His atonement - Romans 3:25-26 - only by His work on the cross is someone saved.

Which brings us to the Mass and the Sacraments.

Roman Catholicism is a “faith plus works” salvation system, because

Because Scripture teaches a faith plus works salvation system.

 you must do good works all through your life to gain back your justification,

You must also do good all your life. Or do you think you can sin and sin mightily and still inherit the Kingdom of heaven. Read the Rev: 22:15:

Revelation 22:15

King James Version (KJV)

 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

started with baptism

It starts before Baptism. For one must have faith in order to be justified and Baptism is the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Spirit. One can't approach Baptism without faith demonstrated in works of love.

(either infant 

Infant baptism is a separate. Jesus Christ said, let the little children come to me (Matt 19:14) and Acts 2:39 says that Baptism is for us and for our children.

or conversion baptism); but which you lost by the commission of mortal sin. 

Never heard of conversion baptism. Nor did I know that you could read my soul and determine that I had committed a mortal sin.

The Roman Church claims “by faith through grace alone”,

Grace alone is a Protestant doctrine. The Catholic Church recognizes that all is grace, but does not teach grace alone.

 but upon deeper investigation, it means that there are works one must do in order keep getting grace until final perseverance and getting scrubbed clean in purgatory and passing through it, and in order to stay in a state of grace. (baptism, partaking of the Lord’s supper, obeying the Ten Commandments, confession to the priest, prayers to Mary for dispensing of grace from the treasury of merit; or some other saint; visiting saints graves, etc. fasting, extended times of more prayer, meditation, giving to the poor; doing what the priest says as the satisfaction aspect of penance, etc.) These things are contradictions to “by grace alone” (hence they contradict faith alone – Romans 4:16) and they contradict “not by our own works”. You don’t get grace dispensed to you from the treasury of merit, unless you do the works; and that only comes to you after you do those things; those good works, ceremonies, communion (partaking of the Lord’s Supper), hail Marys, prayers, fastings, almsgiving, and obeying the Ten Commandments, etc.<

No. 2068 in the RCC Catechism says, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians . . . so that all men may obtain salvation through faith, Baptism, and the observance of the Commandments.” ( p. 502, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Liberia Editrice Vatinaa, Imprimi Potest, Cardinal Ratzinger, 1994.

This is contradictory to RC claims that it is “not by our own works” and contradictory to “by grace alone”.
Also, the Catechism says:
No. 2010 “Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.” ( Ibid, p. 487)

I would love to discuss every single doctrine you've brought up. However, it is impossible for me to do so all at once. I simply don't have the time. However, I invite you to discuss each and everyone of those things with me, one at a time so that we can investigate them thoroughly and compare them to Scripture. Not only the Catholic doctrine, but also YOUR alternative.

Sincerely,

De Maria