De Maria,
You wrote: “Therefore, unless you make Scripture contradict itself, St. Paul is speaking about the wicked people who do not believe in God and disobey His Commandments willfully.”
Comment: I don’t think this is exegetically defensible in Romans. I will show that if there is time. But, simply, Paul explains that he has a zeal for God (Phil 3:6a). He lived according to Law (Phil 3:5). He is “blameless according to the righteousness stipulated in the law” (Phil 3:6b). But even with this, he considers himself as “wicked” having understood that the Law requires perfect obedience. He is “righteous” but that righteousness is not enough to “justify the wicked”. Jesus said, “unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven”. You need a righteousness that is perfect. You don’t have that and can’t have that since you are a lawbreaker. You need a Saviour, De Maria. Will you not joyfully accept the Perfect Righteousness of Christ rather than the righteousness that is gained through your effort of cooperation and merits in the sacramental list of Rome? How I wish we’ll see eye to eye in this matter…
- De Maria says,
Lutero, you said:
Comment: I don’t think this is exegetically defensible in Romans. I will show that if there is time. But, simply, Paul explains that he has a zeal for God (Phil 3:6a). He lived according to Law (Phil 3:5). He is “blameless according to the righteousness stipulated in the law” (Phil 3:6b).
So far we agree.
But even with this, he considers himself as “wicked” having understood that the Law requires perfect obedience.
You will need to show that from Scripture. Here is what St. Paul says:
Philippians 3:15-17
King James Version (KJV)
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensemble.
Note that he considers himself perfect enough to be an example to others, that they might learn from him how to imitate Christ. Not only that, but he admonishes his congregation that they need to pay attention to others which give good example.
He is “righteous” but that righteousness is not enough to “justify the wicked”.
Again, the Church does not teach that we either judge or justify ourselves. We are justified by God. But God does not justify those who do not do His will by keeping the Law in the Commandments (Romans 2:13).
Jesus said, “unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven”. You need a righteousness that is perfect.
Correct. And if you are only a “snow covered dung hill” as it is reported that Luther taught, you have not achieved any righteousness. Yet Scripture says:
2 Peter 1:5-10
King James Version (KJV)
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Unless we perfect our faith in good works, we will not enter the Kingdom of God:
James 2:17-24
King James Version (KJV)
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.There are many aspects to “perfect”. In the Catholic understanding, those who are not perfectly cleansed of their sin in this life, will be so cleansed in the next, in Purgatory.
You don’t have that and can’t have that since you are a lawbreaker.
But I have the Sacraments. And like David, I can present myself to God and he will make me blessed:
Romans 4:6
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
It is in the Sacraments that we present ourselves to God and WITHOUT WORKS, but only a proper disposition of faith and hope, God cleanses us from all sin.
You need a Saviour, De Maria.
I have a Saviour, Christ Jesus.
Will you not joyfully accept the Perfect Righteousness of Christ rather than the righteousness that is gained through your effort of cooperation and merits in the sacramental list of Rome?
It is in my cooperating with His Grace that I accept the Righteousness of God. But I will return the invitation to you. Will you not set aside the errors of the Reformers and come to the Table of the Lord?
Hebrews 10:25-31
King James Version (KJV)
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
How I wish we’ll see eye to eye in this matter…
As do I.
God bless,
Lutero,
And you as well,De Maria
