Tuesday, April 7, 2015

Fathers know best

This is a Protestant's review of Jimmy Akins book, "The Father's Know Best".  My opinion of the reviewer's comments, follows.
God is my Judge said: 
"Review of the Father’s Know Best on the Pope"3 Comments - Hide Original PostJimmy Akin’s book the Father’s Know Best provides hundreds of quotations from the Church Fathers on various topics allegedly showing the link between the early church and modern Roman Catholicism. Of greatest interest to me were the 143 quotations from the Fathers in support of the Papacy. Reading the book gave me an opportunity to learn more about the Fathers. 

Below is a matrix of the results of my review. However, given my review I will risk providing some overall conclusions. 
I didn’t find anything in the Fathers that explicitly taught Papal infallibly or got into ex cathedra vs. non-ex cathedra statements by Popes. So right off the bat I would say the Fathers were not Roman Catholic. However, that doesn’t mean they were Southern Baptists either. Many times they were somewhere in-between. As such, I categorized each quotation from the Fathers Know Best on the Papacy in degrees of agreement. My categories were:
1. No objection2. No biggie3. Don’t like the wording, but OK4. I disagree5. I strongly disagree6. Roman Catholic
Please note, I never had to use category six but out of the 143 quotes I disagreed nine times and strongly disagreed another nine times. Wherever I didn’t like the wording or disagreed, I looked for the quotes online and read them in their broader contexts. 
Two areas of disagreements with the Fathers stood out. First, Leo, around 450, was acting like the boss of the church. That doesn’t mean he thought he was infallible, but he certainly wasn’t a Congregationalist or Presbyterian. Second, in 251 Cyprian of Carthage’s Treaties on the Unity of the Church says the Chair of Peter is the intrinsic reason for unity in the Church. Interestingly there are two versions of the treaties - one of which is fine. Since there’s nothing before Cyprian that I disagree with and nothing after until about 312, Cyprian becomes fairly important. Time permitting, I would like to dig into that work by Cyprian further.
Before getting into the review, I must qualify the ongoing by saying I am only reviewing arguments that the Father’s supported the Papacy. So this review is consciously one sided and can present an unbalanced picture. To get a broader picture one would have to look at arguments from the Fathers against the Papacy – but I will leave that for another day. Here’s the analysis. (link)posted by Godismyjudge at 12:31 PM on May 10, 2011

Blogger De Maria said...
Hi Dan,

I'm not sure what your point is in this article? Is it that you will believe no one else?

We hold the Church Fathers in high regard because their teachings make up the foundation of the faith which we inherited. Scripture says:
Hebrews 13:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Here's our logic.

The Church teaches the Pope is infallible. Did the Church Fathers teach the Pope is infallible? Yes.
Did they point to certain Scriptures? Yes.

Therefore, the Tradition, Scripture and the Magisterium agree that the Pope is infallible.

We don't rely upon our own understanding. We accept the teaching of the Church through the centuries, from the time of Christ.


De Maria

1 comment:

  1. Oh this interesting....

    He wants to go on-line and read everything that surrounds the quotes from the book in order to "read then in broader context". I wonder, which context that was? His personal interpretation or how it relates to what The Church has always taught? Funny that protestants can't seem to read the Scriptures in context but they can the Early Church Fathers.

    I think what Dan needs to do, is research what Papal Infallibility means. Based on some of his comments, I don't think he does.

    I also don't understand these words: "So right off the bat I would say the Fathers were not Roman Catholic." Uhhhhhh...huh? What is it about Rome that protestants don't get? Roman Catholic is only one Rite. The Early Church Fathers were clearly Catholic and the CLEAR fact that they recognized the position of the Pope who was stationed in Rome thus proves the Catholic Doctrine.

    Funny too, what makes his "disagreement" evidence against the quote.

    Rob Bennett ended up becoming Catholic because of the early Church Fathers, as did many other anti-Catholic protestants. I just wish a certain anti-Catholics would quit asserting what the Catholic Church really teaches versus their own personal OPINION of what THEY THINK the Catholic Church teaches.

    God Bless you De Maria! He Has Risen!


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