Wednesday, April 8, 2015

The answer is, that Scripture doesn't. That is the role of the Church.

De Maria said...
Hi Dan,

you said,

Godismyjudge said...
De Maria,

I was being a bit informal about defining sola scriptura, but here's a more thorough definition:

I believe the Scriptures as originally given by God, both Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired Word of God, infallible, entirely trustworthy

That is Catholic Teaching.

, and the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.

How do you mean? Let me give you an example. Say that a fellow reads Rom 6:1 and decides we should sin mightily that grace may abound the more. I have met some who believe this, so its not a far stretch of the imagination. How does Scripture stop them from misinterpreting the message they find in Scripture?

As a Catholic, I'm allowed to read the wise teachings of any man. Here's what a Pagan wrote about the written word before the time of Christ:

Socrates Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their sayings, they always say only one and the same thing.....

Therefore, the question remains, how does Holy Scripture explain itself to anyone who does not understand it?

The answer is, that it doesn't. That is the role of the Church. Jesus Christ established the Church to pass what He commanded and to explain that. That includes what has been written in the Scriptures.

Therefore I do not consider human writings, councils, decrees or official decisions as above or equal to Scripture, 

The Scriptures are human writings. They are human writings inspired by God. And we believe certain councils, decrees and official decisions are also inspired by God to remain free from error. God did not abandon us after He inspired the Holy Scriptures to be written. He is very much alive affecting our decisions and guiding us to this very day and forever.

but they must be examined and assessed based on Scripture.

That is partially Catholic Teaching. We compare everything to Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium.

The Scriptures clearly and completely reveal all things needed for salvation,

That contradicts Scripture itself 2 Peter 3:15-16.

such that whatever is not proven by Scriptures is not to be required of anyone as necessary for salvation.

Good point. Now, is Sola Scriptura necessary for salvation? If so, prove it to me from Scripture.

If not, why do Protestants make such a fuss about it that they endanger their salvation by rebelling against the Church for it?

I can't help but notice that the bulk of your response is predicated on the idea that the Church does not error in doctrine. But then you qualify that with Popes and councils in very specific circumstances. So most of the time, Popes and councils can error, right?

That is correct. Popes are infallible when they teach the Church from the chair of Peter. Councils are infallible when they are ecumenical, teaching in union with the Pope, the entire Church.

Let's take a practical example where the rubber hits the road.

Let's do it.

Could the Church be wrong in its teaching on contraception? 

No. But you probably thinks it can be wrong, so please elaborate.

Here are question for you. If you believe that Scripture is infallible and authoritative, is there a church in existence which you consider the "pillar of truth"? And which is it?

Thanks for the polite conversation. I will try to post more later.


In a follow up, you said:

Following up on your comments on Church authority, I do follow whatever my pastor says as far as running the church. 

That is not exactly being obedient to the Word of God. Here again, is what Scripture says:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Perhaps you notice how closely that resembles what Catholics do when they submit to the authority of the Priest in confession.

Note how that says that the ruler is responsible over your soul to the extent he must give an account. And there is no wishy washiness about when to obey. It simply says submit and obey.

Is there someone in your church to whom you submit whom you consider to be responsible for your soul?

But what he doesn't do is introduce new doctrines not taught in scripture. 

But, he advances the errors introduced by the Reformers. Those errors are not taught in Scripture and blatantly contradict Scripture.

Sola Scriptura for instance, teaches to hold Scripture alone. Yet Scripture says hold the Traditions (2 Thess 2:15).

If he did, I would be leary, but would hear him out and consider what he said. Of course, if he contradicted scripture, we are to obey God rather than men. 

He does contradict Scripture.

As for Luther, he had reason to doubt that those that were calling themselves "the Church" were in fact "the Church". The Medici popes were apostate.

In my opinion, anyone who doubts the Church, doubts Christ who built the Church:
Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

God be with you,

And also with you,


De Maria

1 comment:

Thanks for contributing.