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Christians Truth said...
My reply: I do not know where you get “Sola Scriptura teaches that we don’t need any of that.” Just so you know, I do not use reformed language, such a sola scriptura, and though I am very familiar what they teach, I am defending the truth, and not Calvinists. Calvinists do not even keep to scripture only.
I'll do my best to keep to your terminology. So, you keep to Scripture "only", is that correct? Or should I describe it some other way? My reply: First, there is no such thing as “Traditions” of believers that make it okay to follow doctrine outside the written word. In fact, Jesus strongly rebukes such things.
1. The Mass is described in Scripture.
2. Jesus rebukes those who follow the traditions of men.
3. Your understanding of Scripture is a tradition of one man, you, because you are trying to pass it on to others, for example, me.
In the scriptures, the Apostles spoke of gathering; however, “Mass” is nowhere in the word of God.
Strictly speaking, neither is Bible nor any word you have written here. Scripture was written in a different language. So, in following Scripture, you are following your understanding of something someone interpreted.
My point is that the word Mass does not have to be written explicitly in Scripture for me to see the Mass therein described.
I also want to ask you, please do not say when someone does not believe in what you do, that it means they do not understand your religion.
In the other thread, you accused us of worshipping statues which we incense. If you understand Catholicism, you know that we worship only God. Since you don't know that fact, you don't understand Catholicism. Simple.
My reply: In the New Testament times, the Bible was not yet completed.
Agreed. The Catholic Church completed it later.
True believers gathered to hear letters read from Apostle Paul and others. In addition, true believers gathered to hear the visiting Apostles preach and teach. In addition, true believers had gifts given by the Holy Spirit, and they prophesied, they prophesied about God’s word.
All that is true. Those gatherings we call the Mass.
My reply: There is no such mortal sin not to gather.
It is in fact a mortal sin to think so little of the Sacrifice of our Lord on the Cross that one does not even want to spend a little time, once a week, proclaiming his Thanksgiving to God the Father for this gift of His Grace.
That is a ridiculous teaching from the Catholics.
It is ridiculous to reject it.
What do you mean by saying, “it should be clear from that last one”? Paul is speaking about continuing to sin with no intention of stopping.
Exactly! Many men will disregard the Mass because they will continue to sin in every other way and continue also to disregard the Mass. Those who reject the Mass have rejected Christ who is there presented on the Altar.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Washed, Sanctified and Justified in the Sacraments of the Catholic Church.
Monday, April 15, 2013
From a discussion on the Mass
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Christians Truth said...
My reply: 1. There is no technique in reading the Bible. The Bible is understandable, and it is plain and simple.
The Bible says that it must be taught:
Acts 8: 29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
2. The Tradition of the Catholics add doctrine that are not in the Bible. However, the tradition Paul taught is the same what he taught by letter.
Do you keep this Tradition taught by St. Paul in Scripture:
1 Corinthians 11:25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
3. What good are leaders in a church if falseness is taught.
A. We believe Christ who said that the Gates of Hell would not defeat His Church (Matt 16:19).
B. It is the Church which Christ appoints as the Judge of falseness (Matt 18:17; 1 Tim 3:15).
4. There is no error in scripture alone.
Scripture does not interpret Itself. People interpret Scripture. Therefore, we must follow those who have a proper understanding of the Word of God. Those are they whom God appointed leaders in the Church.
In fact, Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.
That is Catholic Teaching. You are taking much for granted in understanding that verse.
First, Someone must judge whether they who speak are speaking according to the Word. It is the Church which Christ appointed that task.
Second, two things are being judged:
a. the speaking of they who are being questioned.
b. the understanding of they who are contesting this teaching.
Third, there is someone in authority to judge. In the case of the Jews, it was the Sanhedrin. Those who continued in Moses' seat:
Exodus 18:113And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.14And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?15And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:
Jesus says that tradition keeps man from God’s truth:
Jesus says that "traditions of men" keep men from the truth:
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, ….
5. There is no importance in assembling together if falseness is taught.
True. Therefore you need to gather where truth is taught. In the Catholic Church.
Sincerely,
De Maria