Protestants need to convert, 2nd response to PBJ

My 2nd response to PBJ on Catholicism

De Maria  Peace By JESUS • a minute ago

Which is also a superficial non-answer to the basis for assurance of Truth,

According to you. But I can ask you the same question. What is the basis for your assurance of Truth?

as it ignores the problem of how you know that what Rome calls the word of God is just that.

No it doesn't. You didn't ask that question, therefore I answered what was asked.

The reason I know that what the Catholic Church calls the Word of God is the Word of God is manifold.

1. The witness of the Church Fathers, through the centuries

2. The witness of the Liturgies of the Church, through the centuries.

3. The witness of documents of the Church, through the centuries.

4. The witness of secular history.

Notice that I am not even including the witness of Scripture and Sacred Tradition because they are both the Word of God. However, they both witness, one for the other. And the Magisterium of the Church, witnesses for both.

To be consistent you must mean your basis for Truth is based upon the premise of the assured veracity of Rome, as an assuredly infallible magisterium is essential to know what the word of God is

I never denied that I believe the Catholic Church is infallible. But that is not my only reason that I believe that Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up the Word of God passed down by Jesus Christ through the Church. And you didn't ask that question either.

Thus to be consistent 1st. c. souls could not have know what men and writings were of God except by looking to the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation, which Scripture tells us were those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34)

That was the Old Testament. But Jesus came along, established the Catholic Church, commanded the Catholic Church to Teach His commands through all generations and fulfilled the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church then wrote the New Testament based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ.

But instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected,

Whom the Jews rejected. Let's be clear on that point. The magisterium of the Jews rejected Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ established a new Magisterium.

and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Jesus Christ did not place the Scriptures above His Word:

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus Christ established His Traditions and commanded the Church to Teach (Matt 28:19-20). He never mentioned putting anything in writing nor handing out Bibles.

Thus under your basis for assurance of Truth, and its presuppositions, De Maria has nuked the NT church and replaced it with a false one.

On the contrary, the Catholic Church is the one which Jesus Christ established and this is proven by Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, secular history, the writings of the Fathers and more.

True, but what the apostles preached was not established as being of God on the Roman basis of assured veracity, but upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, "not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. (2 Corinthians 4:2)

But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,..By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, (2 Corinthians 6:4,7)

That is a false dichotomy since the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament. That verse which you are quoting was written by a Catholic. And here's how I'll prove it. You believe the Catholic Doctrine that men are mediators of God's word to be a blasphemous teaching. You also deny that any man can represent God. But 2 Corinthians was written by a Catholic who has no such objections:

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Likewise those who sat in the seat of Moses, thus to be consistent, 1st. c. souls should have submitted to themas to Rome under your model. But while we both affirm the magisterial office, never did that mean perpetual magisterial infallibility.

So you say, but I follow the Scripture:

Ephesians 3:10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

If the Church is teaching the wisdom of God in eternity, then that speaks of perpetual magisterial infallibility. Eternal-perpetual, Teaching-magisterial, Wisdom of God-infallible.

And under which presumption her claim not to contradict Scripture is spurious, as that is according to her autocratic judgment.

Again, that is your biased judgement. But the Scripture tells us plainly that the Church upholds the Truth (1 Tim 3:15) and that we learn the Word of God from our rulers in the Church (Heb 13:7).

But this presumes the magisterium is infallible, which is a novelty unknown and unnecessary in Scripture. Instead, while rebellion against magisterial authority could even mean death, (Dt. 17:8-13) God often provided and preserved Truth by raising up men from without the magisterium. And thus the church also began and has been preserved.

Jesus Christ introduced many New things in the New Testament. In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit leads Christ's Church into all truth:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Therefore, the Catholic Church is infallible.

Rather, what you do represent is not Scriptural Teaching. Until you can admit that wha you affirms is wrong, that an infallible magisterium is NOT essential for valid assurance of Truth and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and 
preservation of faith;

It is you who are wrong. Scripture is clear that Jesus Christ established an infallible Church.

And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) does NOT means that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium,

Yes, it does.

 and instead concur that the church began by establishing its Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power,

Scripture itself records that this is not true. The New Testament shows Jesus establishing a Church and commanding that Church to pass on His Teaching. He didn't write a word of Scripture.

under OT Scripture being supreme,

Jesus Christ did not place the OT above His Word which He passed on in Sacred Tradition.

 then do not bother taking up more time with more propaganda as you do elsewhere.

Lol! You have been raised up for one purpose, that Catholics may show your heresies to the world and more people may come to God's Church. I pray that you may be amongst them.

January 1, 2015 Solemnity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God

The Octave Day of Christmas

Scripture proclaims Mary the Mother of God:

Luke 1:43
And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

And so she is.  She is the mother of Jesus.  Jesus is God.  Therefore, she is the Mother of God.

Read more about the Mother of God.  And more.

On the eighth day of Christmas, my True Love gave to me...eight maids a milking.

The eight maids a milking symbolize the eight beatitudes of Jesus Christ.  The beatitudes come from the  heart of the Church which is the bride of Christ.

Isaiah 66:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11 That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12 For thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

Lectionary: 18

Reading 1 from the Holy Book of Numbers
Nm 6:22-27

The LORD said to Moses:
“Speak to Aaron and his sons and tell them:
This is how you shall bless the Israelites.
Say to them:
The LORD bless you and keep you!
The LORD let his face shine upon
you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and
give you peace!
So shall they invoke my name upon the Israelites,
and I will bless them.”

The Lord recited a prayer to Moses and instructed him to teach it to Aaron and his sons.  Who is Aaron?  Aaron is Moses' elder brother.  He is the first High Priest of God, appointed by God.  Both Moses and Aaron are from the tribe of Levi.

Responsorial Psalm
Ps 67:2-3, 5, 6, 8

R. (2a) May God bless us in his mercy.

May God have pity on us and bless us;
may he let his face shine upon us.
So may your way be known upon earth;
among all nations, your salvation.

R. May God bless us in his mercy.

May the nations be glad and exult
because you rule the peoples in equity;
the nations on the earth you guide.

R. May God bless us in his mercy.

May the peoples praise you, O God;
may all the peoples praise you!
May God bless us,
and may all the ends of the earth fear him!

R. May God bless us in his mercy.

On this day, we must understand, that the blessing of God, came to us through Mary, the Mother of God.  The blessing of God, is God made man, Jesus Christ.

Reading 2 from the Epistle of St. Paul to the Galations.
Gal 4:4-7

Brothers and sisters:When the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son,born of a woman, born under the law,to ransom those under the law,so that we might receive adoption as sons.

The key words I focus upon, on this day, are BORN OF A WOMAN.  And what a woman!  Conceived without sin, united to the Holy Spirit from the moment of her conception.  Lived her entire life without committing a sin.

We received the blessing of God, through this wonderful woman.

As proof that you are sons,
God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts,
crying out, “Abba, Father!”
So you are no longer a slave but a son,
and if a son then also an heir, through God.

We are sons of God.  Born of the same mother.  Mary is the mother of all who keep the testimony of Jesus Christ and the Commandments of the Father.

Revelation 12:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 

Alleluia HEB 1:1-2

R. Alleluia, alleluia.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets;
in these last days, he has spoken to us through the Son.
R. Alleluia, alleluia.
Gospel

A reading from the Holy Gospel according to St. Luke
Lk 2:16-21

The shepherds went in haste to Bethlehem and found Mary and Joseph,
and the infant lying in the manger.

Having heard the message of the Angels, the shepherds hurried to witness the heavenly news they had received.

When they saw this,
they made known the message
that had been told them about this child.

When the shepherds arrived, they reported what the Angels from heaven had told them.

All who heard it were amazed
by what had been told them by the shepherds.
And Mary kept all these things,
reflecting on them in her heart.

And Mary treasured all this information in her heart.

Then the shepherds returned,
glorifying and praising God
for all they had heard and seen,
just as it had been told to them.

Then the shepherds returned to their fields, praising God for all they had heard and seen that night.

When eight days were completed for his circumcision,
he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel
before he was conceived in the womb.

And in eight days, the family took the child to the Temple in obedience to the Law of Moses.

Protestants need to convert

On the Catholicism website, I found a comment by PeacebyJesus to which I responded.

• • • • • • • • • • • • • 
                          
                          

                           
• 

  
  
  

  De Maria  Peace By JESUS • 3 minutes ago

  
  

  Peace By JESUS GeneDe • 7 months ago
  
  I think the first question I would ask you is, what is the basis for your assurance of truth?

  The Word of God passed down by Jesus Christ in the deposit of faith which He entrusted to the Church.

  For it seems that the RC argument is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for valid assurance of Truth and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith. (Jn. 14:16; 16:13; Mt. 16:18)

  That is correct. Scripture explicitly states that the Church is the instrument by which God conveys His word and wisdom to the world:

  Ephesians 3:10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

  1 Timothy 3:15 but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

  And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium.

  As confirmed in Scripture. Since the Catholic Church continues to hold to Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture as admonished by the Apostle, so to do:

  2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

  Thus those who dissent from the latter are in rebellion to God.

  Again, very true and in conformity with the Word of God in Scripture which says that the Church represents God:

  2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

  Therefore, anyone who rebels against the Church, rebels against the Church which He sent:

  Luke 10:16

  He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

  Does this fairly represent what you hold to or in what way does it differ??

  That fairly presents the Catholic and Scriptural Teaching. Thank you.

cont'd 2nd reply

But Protestants have cast the Word of God out in order to sustain their traditions of men.

Calvin:
Your marian dogmas prove your assertions to be false.

On the contrary:

Assumption and Coronation of Mary, Rev 12:1

Revelation 12:1

King James Version (KJV)
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Mary, mother of God, Luke 1:48:
Luke 1:43

King James Version (KJV)
⁴³ And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

But Protestants have cast the Word of God out in order to sustain their traditions of men.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Very interesting response from PBJ about the phrase "most blessed among women"

Hi PeacebyJesus,

Thanks for responding.

PeaceByJesus said...
De Maria: I responded here to your blog version, and mostly in that order.
Pt. 1.
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 

According to the Biblehub which is a Protestant Scripture website, the KJV, the Darby, the Webster and the World English say, blessed art thou among women.

So you added to Scripture by making "among women" to mean uniquely most blessed above women, which was the issue. 
She actually was so blessed, not due to manifest supreme virtue but due to being the vessel God chose to incarnate Himself thru, yet i wanted to see where your text was that stated this. 
For actually, this statement was not unique, for as said of another salvific instrument, "Blessed above [or among] women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent." (Judges 5:24)

Jael is called blessed among women because she killed a man in his sleep and thus rescued the Israelites.  Mary is called blessed amongst women, twice, because she will soon conceive the Son of God (Luke 1:28) and because she had conceived the Son of God (Luke 1:42).

But you're equating the killing of a man in his sleep, with giving birth to the incarnate Son of God?

Because the way I read it, Mary is more blessed than any other woman that ever walked the earth because she will soon conceive the Son of God.  In fact, after conceiving the Son of God, St. Elizabeth tells her the very same thing.

Luke 1:42
and she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

But, tell me.  What woman has received a greater blessing than being the Mother of Jesus Christ?  I'd really like to know.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Thank you for helping the St. Paul Center continue its work in 2014

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Whereas the Bereans accepted the Teaching of the Apostles

Catholicguy: 

who said Jesus lied? or his word lied? I am saying the bereans, who are always pointed to as evidence for the false doctrine of sola scriptura, where is no way sola scriptura. they needed paul and the church to guide them. they accepted the preaching of Paul as opposed to those jews in thessonia who clung only to their intepretation of scripture and refused to agree with paul and the church.

Calvin: 

Beareans checked teachings against scripture.

So did the Thessalonicans.

The Catholic Church behaves precisely as did the Bereans. Catholics are the modern Bereans. We accept Tradition and Scripture according to the Teaching of the Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Luther: 

Yep according to the teachings of the church....Just not Jesus Christ.

According to the Teachings of Jesus Christ through His Church.  

Acts 17

King James Version (KJV)
1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
² And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
³ Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
⁴ And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
⁵ But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
⁶ And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
⁷ Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
⁸ And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
⁹ And when they had taken security of Jason, and of the other, they let them go.
¹⁰ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
¹¹ These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Note that the Apostles brought the Teaching of Jesus Christ through the Church, which they represent.  They also reasoned with the Thessalonicans, out of the Scriptures.  Just as they did thigh the Bereans.  But the Thessalonican Jews rejected the Teaching of the Apostles.  Not the Scriptures.

Whereas the Bereans accepted the Teaching of the Apostles, that is to say, the Teaching of the Church AND the Scriptures.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Who is your patron saint for 2015?

Over at Conversion Diary, Jennifer Fulwiller has made it easy for you to select a Patron Saint for 2015.  Why don't you give it a go?  Mine is St.  André Bessette. 

Prayer:

St. André, your devotion to Saint Joseph is an inspiration to us. You gave your life selflessly to bring the message of his life to others. Pray that we may learn from Saint Joseph, and from you, what it is like to care for Jesus and do his work in the world. Amen

Catch up with Priests for Life, Tuesday on Radio Maria's 'Gospel of Life'

December 29, 2014

The year 2014 was a busy and productive one for Priests for Life and all the ministries under its banner. On the year’s final broadcast of “Gospel of Life” on Radio Maria, Tuesday, December 30 at 6 p.m. ET, join hosts Father Frank Pavone, National Director, and Janet Morana, Executive Director, as they look back at the year just passed and ahead to the New Year right around the corner.

Here’s a peek at some of the projects Priests for Life will be working on in 2015:

• We will lead a pro-life event during the course of the World Meeting of Families in September in Philadelphia.
• In August, a team from Priests for Life will join Canadian psychiatrist Dr. Philip Ney to offer a week-long rehabilitation session for those who have left the abortion industry.
• In February, Priests for Life and the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists will host a press conference at the National Press Club to discuss exciting developments in reversing the effects of the first drug a mother takes for a chemical abortion, thus saving the baby. Dr. Matt Harrison, a medical advisor for Priests for Life, performed the first-ever reversal in 2007.

Father Frank and Janet also will discuss the spiritual significance of New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day. It’s not all about champagne and fireworks!

For a list of Radio Maria stations or to tune in to “Gospel of Life” on the Internet, go to http://radiomaria.us/the-gospel-of-life/ . Tablet and smart phone users also can download a free Radio Maria app so they can listen to the show wherever they go.

The show will be rebroadcast at 2 a.m. ET Thursday and midnight ET on Sunday. All the shows are archived at priestsforlife.org/radiomaria.

Please tune in to our other TV and Radio shows and special appearances this week:

The Catholic View for Women

Airing on EWTN: Friday, January 2 at 10:30 am

This Week's Topic: Who am I to Judge, Pt. 2. Dan Mattson of the Courage Ministry joins the trio as he gives his testimony of living a chaste life now.

Gospel of Life TV

Airing Schedule: Watch on  National Religious Broadcasters network (NRB), Wednesday, December 31st at 4:30 pm ET. The NRB Network is on DIRECTV, channel 378. Also airing on SkyAngel 2 on Friday, January 2nd at 6 am. ET.

This Week's Topic on NRB: New Year's Special

This Week's Topic on SkyAngel: What the Nurses Saw

Catholic Connection with Teresa Tomeo.  Fr. Frank will be on with Teresa at8:35am on Monday, January 5. Call-in to the live show with questions at 877-573-7825. For more information and to listen to the live show on the internet, go to http://www.avemariaradio.net/hosts/teresa-tomeo/ .

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The mystery of Christ in the Church, San Diego

The Mystery of Christ in the Church: A Study of Ephesians.” January 9-10th San Diego, California

St. Paul Center - Epiphany of the Lord

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January 4th 2015 - Epiphany of the Lord Listen Here! Newborn King Readings: Isaiah 60:1-6 Psalm 72:1-2,7-8, 10-13 Ephesians 3:2-3,5-6 Matthew 2:1-12 An “epiphany” is an appearance. In today’s readings, with their rising stars, splendorous lights and mysteries revealed, the face of the child born on Christmas day appears. Herod, in today’s Gospel, asks the chief priests and scribes where the Messiah is to be born. The answer Matthew puts on their lips says much more, combining two strands of Old Testament promise - one revealing the Messiah to be from the line of David (see 2 Samuel 2:5), the other predicting “a ruler of Israel” who will “shepherd his flock” and whose “greatness shall reach to the ends of the earth” (see Micah 5:1-3). Those promises of Israel’s king ruling the nations resound also in today’s Psalm. The psalm celebrates David’s son, Solomon. His kingdom, we sing, will stretch “to the ends of the earth,” and the world’s kings will pay Him homage. That’s the scene too in today’s First Reading, as nations stream from the East, bearing “gold and frankincense” for Israel’s king. The Magi’s pilgrimage in today’s Gospel marks the fulfillment of God’s promises. The Magi, probably Persian astrologers, are following the star that Balaam predicted would rise along with the ruler’s staff over the house of Jacob (see Numbers 24:17). Laden with gold and spices, their journey evokes those made to Solomon by the Queen of Sheba and the “kings of the earth” (see 1 Kings 10:2,25; 2 Chronicles 9:24). Interestingly, the only other places where frankincense and myrrh are mentioned together are in songs about Solomon (see Song of Songs 3:6, 4:6,14). One greater than Solomon is here (see Luke 11:31). He has come to reveal that all peoples are “co-heirs” of the royal family of Israel, as today’s Epistle teaches. His manifestation forces us to choose: Will we follow the signs that lead to Him as the wise Magi did? Or will we be like those priests and the scribes who let God’s words of promise become dead letters on an ancient page? Yours in Christ, Scott Hahn, Ph.D. P.S. Do you want your friends, family, and co-workers to know the treasures of the Catholic faith through the treasure of God’s Word? Then join me in praying for the work of the St. Paul Center and please make your most generous financial contribution today. You can donate now by credit card by visiting our secure, convenient website at www.salvationhistory.com Introducing the New St. Paul Center App! Get Scott Hahn's Sunday Bible Reflections on your phone!

Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God  A six lesson Bible study on the The Mother of Jesus.