To be saved BY GOD, you must keep the law

Himsel:
LOL....since ONLY GOD saves, my point stands...

Nope. Because you are insinuating that God saves anyone regardless of whether they keep the Law. Whereas Scripture is clear that God only saves those who keep the law:

Exodus 20:6

King James Version (KJV)
⁶ And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

It would be very simple to prove your point. Show someone being saved who rejected the Commandments of God.

.you said to be saved you must keep the law....Scripture says otherwise..

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To be saved BY GOD, you must keep the law. That is what Scripture says.

Your disotortion of Scripture proves you can misquote Scripture out of context....

You are insinuating that I misquoted Scripture? Prove it.

The law justified NO ONE.....for by the works of the law, NO FLESH shall be justified in His sight.....

Exactly! But justifies no one who does not do the works of the law (Rom 2:13).

Grace through faith.

which works by love.

Who do you think grants you that faith?

God.

Apparently you don't even know what our faith is in.

It is you who does not realize that making a claim of faith is not the same as having faith.

Asinine statement.

Yours.

You, someone is steeped in error, do not have the ablility to correct anyone.

I am correcting you.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Those who believe they have saved themselves by their faith alone have exalted themselves and put themselves in the place of God.

De Maria says:

September 21, 2012 at 10:05 pm

Hi again Steve,

Steve Martin says:
September 21, 2012 at 7:54 pm
It’s not unbiblical.

Yes, it is.

It’s the truth that no one keeps the commandments.

No, its not:
Luke 1:
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The example you used before is about atheists and people who do not believe in God. Scripture is clear that they are all sinners.
Psalm 53:1
King James Version (KJV)
1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Jesus said that we “must be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect”

No He didn’t.
Matthew 5:47-48
King James Version (KJV)
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is a suggestion, not a command.

Who has done that?

Zecharias and Elizabeth, St. Paul, the Apostles, Mary, the Canonized Sts. and many more which aren’t recorded in anyone’s history but whom God knows.

Jesus told the disciples that “they must sell all their possessions, otherwise they cannot be his disciples.”

Please provide the verse. Because even in Scripture we find that a rich man was His disciple:
Matthew 27:57
King James Version (KJV)
57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:

Who is doing that?
Many of the Canonized Saints, St. Francis of Assissi comes prominently to mind. Ministerial priests give vows of poverty. Many of the religious orders also do that.

Jesus said that “if you are angry with your brother, then you are a murderer”.

Who amongst us has not been angry at someone?

Who amongst us has been angry and then forgiven and been forgiven, repented and confessed their sin to God?

Jesus told the rich young ruler, who said that he had kept all the commandments since his youth, to “sell everything he had, give it to the poor and follow him (Jesus). And the young man went away sorrowful.

So? Is that what you would do? Many thousands in the annals of Catholic Church history have gladly sold all their possessions and become one with Christ.

We don’t keep the commandments.

Maybe you don’t. I’m keeping them pretty well right now.

If we say that we are without sin we are deluded.

I have repented from and confessed my sins. Haven’t you?

Those who actually believe they are doing a good job of keeping the commandments are in danger of pride, on top of being delusional.

Those who believe they have saved themselves by their faith alone have exalted themselves and put themselves in the place of God.

As for us, we don’t judge ourselves. We await for God to judge our works.

Now…here’s the good news (you’ve heard that term before)…

Christ died for and loves sinners.

Excellent news indeed. But if you remain a sinner, you can forget it. Jesus came to call sinners to repentance. Those are the sinners He came to save. The ones who would discard their sinful ways and turn to Him and live:
Luke 5:32
King James Version (KJV)
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Nicodemus, the Teacher of Israel, was apologizing

Nondenom said:
I think it is interesting to note that when Nicodemus came to ask Jesus how to get to heaven, Jesus did not say "Keep the law." What He did say is "You must be born again." Then He stated that this was the plan from the beginning, by berating Nicodemus for not knowing it.

That's not what Nicodemus asked. He asked Jesus if He was the Messiah:
John 3
King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus, the Teacher of Israel, was apologizing for those Pharisees who believed that Jesus produced His miracles by the help of Baal. He therefore assured Jesus that he believed that Jesus was sent by God. In other words, that Jesus is the Messiah.

However, Nicodemus is not one of Christ's chosen. Therefore He speaks to him in parables:
Matthew 13:12-14
King James Version (KJV)
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Jesus did that in order that Nicodemus be in need of the Church, which Jesus was establishing, with the Apostles as the foundation. And Nicodemus would need to go to them for understanding of His Teachings.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Note that Jesus did not address what Nicodemus (Nic) said. Nicodemus was speaking of Jesus and His miracles. And of the fact that Jesus was united with God.

But Jesus turned it around on Nic and said, in order for you also to accomplish the works of God and to be united to God, you must be born again. This is something which Nic should have known. For Nic was a Teacher of Israel and should have known that it takes a conversion of the heart, a new birth, in order to be united to God:
Ezekiel 18:31
King James Version (KJV)
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

But, perhaps because he was nervous. After all, he didn't want to be seen with Jesus and was sneaking around at night. But Nic didn't understand the reference to being born again in the Spirit.

So, Jesus said to him:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now, the reference to water is a reference to the flesh. Being born of woman. Have you ever heard of the term, "her water broke"? It happens in every human birth.

And being born of the Spirit, is a reference to God giving the man new life and a new heart. Conversion.

Jesus explains further:
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 

But Nic is still a few steps behind. Apparently taking Jesus literally:
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

And so Jesus scolds him and tells him that He is God, who has descended from heaven in order to ascend back again.

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And save those who believe in Him in the process.

Quote:

I think in Genesis 15 it says "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." This is the process of being born again.

And so, you have proven that Nic should have known of what Jesus spoke. Because I'm sure that Nic was aware of that passage.

Quote:

Paul says the law was only given to reveal sin and I agree with him.

As do I.

Quote:

However, I believe if we do not follow the law, we suffer earthly consequences for breaking it, even though we are forgiven if we are born again.

I agree. But I don't understand why you place this sentence behind the second as though they contradict. The Law reveals sin because anything which contradicts the law is sin. Therefore, ipso facto, in order to avoid sin, one must keep the Law.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Note:  Perhaps some of you are wondering why I did not mention Baptism in this explanation.  Well, Nondenom was not denying the efficacy or necessity of Baptism.  I saw it more as a debate on whether or not to keep the Commandments.  Which, surprisingly, so many Protestants claim they are no longer necessary to keep.  So, I didn't think it was necessary to mention it.  However, John 3:5 is the verse which the Catholic Church has defined, in Trent VI, as the verse which establishes the necessity of being Baptized.

CHAPTER IVA BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER AND ITS MODE IN THE STATE OF GRACE

In which words is given a brief description of the justification of the sinner, as being a translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace and of the adoption of the sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior.

This translation however cannot, since promulgation of the Gospel, be effected except through the laver of regeneration or its desire, as it is written:

Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.