Hi, if I may, here’s how I would respond.
1. In order for the papacy or an earthly head of the church with successors to be true as a definer and protector of truth, it would logically have to be described from the beginning of the church in the apostolic period and not as a later development.
It is described in Scripture.
?2. For the office of papacy to be true, it would need to be described with qualifications for successors, in the inspired writings among the gifts given by Christ for church unity when he ascended into heaven in Ephesians 4:7-16, yet the papacy is conspicuously absent.
Why does St. Paul need to mention it there when Christ has already said it here:
Matthew 16:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
and here:
John 21:17?He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Note that St. Peter (aka Simon son of Jonas) is assigned the position of chief Pastor and the verse you provided says the following:
Ephesians 4:11?And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:11?And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
3. Such a fundamentally important central role as the papacy, in order to be true, would be a central repeated theme of writings by the first Christians: Luke, James, John, Paul, and Peter himself, yet there is not a single mention.
1. In fact, there is.
2. But yours is a matter of opinion. I don’t see the need to repeat it since Jesus Christ already commanded it.
3. The fact is, that many things are assumed in Scripture. One of those is the primacy of St. Peter. Scripture follows the Tradition established by Jesus Christ. That is why St. Peter is so frequently mentioned first. Why he speaks with authority over the other Apostles. And why, at one point, he asserts that lying to him is tantamount to lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3).
2. But yours is a matter of opinion. I don’t see the need to repeat it since Jesus Christ already commanded it.
3. The fact is, that many things are assumed in Scripture. One of those is the primacy of St. Peter. Scripture follows the Tradition established by Jesus Christ. That is why St. Peter is so frequently mentioned first. Why he speaks with authority over the other Apostles. And why, at one point, he asserts that lying to him is tantamount to lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3).
4. Although “head of the church” is a phrase, office, and title in scripture, only Christ and never Peter was ever referred to as such.
Except when Christ referred to St. Peter as the Rock on which He would build His Church. The name “Rock” is very telling. Rock is God’s name. Yet Jesus gave St. Peter that name. Signifying that St. Peter would be as God before the Church.
T5. Peter is not explicitly identified as the head of the church in the Jerusalem council in Acts.15; rather James makes the closing summary, although even James is not identified as sole head or bishop of the Jerusalem church.
But it is St. Peter who makes the remarks upon which the meeting is resolved.
6. Peter is never identified in scripture as the singular bishop of the Jerusalem diocese or of any diocese.
6. Peter is never identified in scripture as the singular bishop of the Jerusalem diocese or of any diocese.
1. No need. The New Testament is written based upon the Traditions of the Church. The Traditions are assumed in the writing and not always explicitly named.
2. Also, theological language is not yet developed at the time of the writing of the New Testament. For instance, the Trinity is yet unknown except as it it described. The Eucharist is still unnamed. And the Sacraments are not referred to as the Sacraments, but as the doctrine of Baptisms (Hebrews 6:2).
3. The New Testament was written at a time of persecution. St. Peter was in hiding. St. Peter is not mentioned as the singular Bishop of any Diocese for his safety.
4. However, Jesus names him the Bishop of the entire Church when He names him Peter and gives him the keys to heaven.
2. Also, theological language is not yet developed at the time of the writing of the New Testament. For instance, the Trinity is yet unknown except as it it described. The Eucharist is still unnamed. And the Sacraments are not referred to as the Sacraments, but as the doctrine of Baptisms (Hebrews 6:2).
3. The New Testament was written at a time of persecution. St. Peter was in hiding. St. Peter is not mentioned as the singular Bishop of any Diocese for his safety.
4. However, Jesus names him the Bishop of the entire Church when He names him Peter and gives him the keys to heaven.
7. If there was an infallible head of the church and voice of Christ on earth with successors after Peter, there are no claims, writings, or pronouncements from them until Victor blunders onto the scene with his error, even though the period was fraught with heresies, and the entire NT was written when the apostles and church were persecuted from the beginning.
It is there from the time that Jesus pronounced the words, “Upon this Rock, I will build my Church. ” You are simply living in denial.
If the church was intended to be built on none other than the pope or person of Peter, why is he not mentioned at all by one of the most important first Christians in the following passage speaking of who the church is built upon? Ephesians 2:19-22 “Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.”
As Steve Ray has said in the past, you are mixing your metaphors.
1. It is obvious that Jesus was speaking metaphorically when He said He would build the Church on the Rock of St. Peter. The metaphor means that Jesus established St. Peter as the most important, foundational, leader of the Church.
2. However, Scripture gives us several metaphors of the foundation of the Church.
a. Christ as foundation.
b. Christ and the Prophets and the Apostles as foundation.
3. In order to understand how all these metaphors work together, we need to know how Jesus designed the Church.
4. The Church is the Body of Christ. He is the Owner. But the title, Body of Christ, gives the sense of the design. Christ designed for Himself a corporation. Complete with CEO and board of managers. And the Church has been an ongoing concern to this day.
1. It is obvious that Jesus was speaking metaphorically when He said He would build the Church on the Rock of St. Peter. The metaphor means that Jesus established St. Peter as the most important, foundational, leader of the Church.
2. However, Scripture gives us several metaphors of the foundation of the Church.
a. Christ as foundation.
b. Christ and the Prophets and the Apostles as foundation.
3. In order to understand how all these metaphors work together, we need to know how Jesus designed the Church.
4. The Church is the Body of Christ. He is the Owner. But the title, Body of Christ, gives the sense of the design. Christ designed for Himself a corporation. Complete with CEO and board of managers. And the Church has been an ongoing concern to this day.
The Achilles Heal of the Papacy Theory ?If indeed Peter was the head of the church with successors as the voice of Christ and the basis of unity, where is this voice during the turbulent years of persecution and heresy before Constantine? Someone will say, “They went to their deaths as martyrs.” But so did the apostles, yet we have their writings well-preserved for us. Where are the writings of the popes from 60 AD to 325 AD? (Clement’s letter is not from him as a singular bishop but from the church of Rome to the church of Corinth, not to the singular bishop of Corinth.) We have something recorded ABOUT some of the other alleged popes but not a single written word FROM them. But correct me if I am mistaken. I would find their writings most interesting.
Steve Ray corrected you already. Read the letter of St. Clement again. It is obvious that he is writing as the CEO of the Church. That means that he represents the entire Church. That is why, frequently, the Pope uses the royal “we” in his documents. Because he represents everyone in God’s Kingdom.
Sincerely,
De Maria
De Maria
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