This sacrament is also called “the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit,”

De Maria October 22, 2012 at 7:33 PM

Hi alan almeida,

Hello Bill912, Here goes…
As a base example, Let’s take the teaching of the CCC #1215

1215 This sacrament is also called “the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit,” for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one “can enter the kingdom of God.”

that relies on Titus 3:5 and John 3:5 and lets us see why these verses have been taken out of context.

Ok.

First and foremost Titus is an epistle letter, and unlike other epistles, were written to people who were already Christians (believers).

All the Epistles were written to individual Christians or Church communities. True.

And so we cannot lead un-believers into Christian initiation thru any of the the Epsitles.

That doesn’t follow.
1st. CCC1215 simply describes Baptism. It doesn’t say that one must study the Epistle of Titus in order to become Christian.
2nd. Titus 3:5 is a description of the physical and spiritual actions which take place in Baptism. The water washes our skin as the Spirit washes the sins off our soul. It does not address Christian initiation. That is addressed in other Scriptures. And Christian initiation is not synonymous with Baptism. Baptism is the climax of Christian initiation.
3rd. In the Epistle to Titus, St. Paul instructs St. Titus to instruct a Christian community. All Christian communities follow the Great Commission of Jesus Christ, to make disciples of the world.

By Christian initiation, I mean “How to become a Christian”, “How to enter the Kingdom of heaven on earth, “How to begin the Christian life”, “How to be born Again”.

To understand the process of conversion which leads one to Christian initiation and concludes in Baptism, please read the documents of the Council of Trent.

Now we are left with John 3:5 – the Gospel.

One verse of the Gospel of John.

We see that John the Baptist preached the “Baptism of Repentance”.

True. But John 3:5 doesn’t even mention John the Baptist. So, what are you talking about, the Baptism of Christ or the Baptism of John?

During the period covering the Gospels, people were baptized with John’s Baptism after producing “fruits of repentance” – Mathew 3:7-9. In other words, people who came to John’s Baptism after believing, were made disciples, xxxxx John 4:1 (showing fruits of repentance), and then they were baptized subsequently. Unlike in the Roman Catholic Church its totally topsy-turvy and therefore not compatible with New Testament Baptism.

Really? That’s what you think? Most Protestants castigate the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church requires everyone who converts to go through the Rite of Christian Iniation for adults (RCIA).

The best way to prove you wrong is to have you go to any Catholic Church and request Baptism. See if what you claim is true.

Also those people baptized during the period covering Gospels, had to be re-baptized again. I can elaborate more, but i’ll keep it for next time should the need arise

Only those Baptized by St. John. There is no indication that the Apostles, whom we assume were baptized by Christ, were ever re-baptized by water unless they were first disciples of St. John.

Sincerely,

De Maria