KS: You say that because you name it and claim it that you have saved yourself. Have you not listened to anything I have said?


DM-I could ask you the same thing. But I recognize that we disagree with each other. I have heard everything you said, but I disagree.


KS-Romans 8.16, "The Holy Spirit bears witness that we are the children of God." I know that I am saved because I know the Lord; He bears witness to my salvation.


Romans 8, also says:


Romans 8:17 And if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, provided that we share his sufferings so that we may also share his glory.


Thus, unless you suffer with Christ, you will not share in His glory. Yeah, that is another condition for salvation.


Hebrews 12:8
If you have not received the discipline in which all share, then you are illegitimate and not true sons.


//KS-Moreover, Jesus said, "My Father will give the Holy Spirit to whoever asks of Him." DeMaria says, "Not so! You must be baptized before receiving the Holy Spirit." Or 'asking is only when being baptized.'//


KS-Jesus does NOT play games with words!


DM-It is you playing games with the Word of God. You have made yourself the authority over Scripture and have twisted God's message beyond recognition. Your incoherent, inconsistent, contradictory teachings are signs of the confusion which Satan produces.


Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and sent her out to Teach His Commands. But you thumb your nose at being taught by men, you are too great for that.


Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus approached them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[a] 20 and teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the world.”


In your religion, God doesn't have the authority to appoint men to Teach you what He wants you to learn in order to be saved.


When God said to Cornelius, "send for this man". You would have replied, "Me, what for? I can read and understand by my own understanding." Even though Scripture warns against that sort of pride:


Proverbs 3:5 Trust wholeheartedly in the Lord
rather than relying on your own intelligence.


KS-He says 'ask and you will receive.' Yet, you make the Lord a liar by saying, "That's not true. You can only ask by being baptized.' I pray for you. You are in blatant contradiction to Christ.


DM-It is you making Him a liar. Jesus Christ also said:


John 15:10If you keep my commandments,
you will remain in my love,
just as I have kept my Father’s commandments
and remain in his love.


And again:


John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven.
Whoever eats this bread will live forever;
and the bread that I will give
is my flesh, for the life of the world.”


And also:


John 3:5Jesus said,


“Amen, amen, I say to you,
no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.


And many other requirements Jesus made for one to be saved. But you want to replace Jesus and give your own version of salvation.


//DM: The Catholic Church is waiting for you//
KS: I am already close friends with Jesus Christ. Of what value do I have with those who trample on the words of my Lord?


DM-It is you who trample on His words. The Catholic Church will give you the proper understanding of God's Word.


KS- I hope that you will simply be honest! May God help you to be so. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.


DM-It is you who needs to be honest. You have turned God's Word upside down and continue to make yourself into your own saviour. You have distorted the Gospel of Jesus Christ beyond recognition.


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.


Exodus 20:6 but I will show my favor for a thousand generations of those who love me and observe my commandments.


You don't have the authority to annul God's Word simply because you prefer one verse over the rest of Scripture. Scripture is the Word of God. every word of it is equally inspired.


The Catholic Church is the instrument God has chosen to Teach His Word to the world. She it is who wrote the New Testament and selected the books to be included in the Old Testament. It is to her that you should be listening in order to discover how you will be saved. Just as God told St. Cornelius to send for St. Peter, you need to do the same and send for the Catholic Church.

KS- Hi. I think our entire line of dialogue boils down to this. Jesus said, "My Father will give the Holy Spirit to whoever asks of Him." Your reply is that 'asking' has to be during baptism. I think that negates the words of Christ; I don't think you are being honest.


DM-I have a different opinion.  Our entire dialogue boils down to this question, "who is in authority?" Without saying so directly, you demonstrate that you believe you are in authority.


Evidence for this conclusion.


1. You take one verse out of Scripture and make an entire theology upon it. You discard the rest of Scripture as though it is of no consequence regarding the question of salvation.


2. You have made yourself a special individual to whom you claim that God has given a special privilege of salvation without having to meet the requirements He has set for all others from the beginning.


Whereas, I accept the authority of God and the whole of the Revelation of God through Jesus Christ. I accept that God became man and that Jesus established a Church and Taught that Church the Doctrines He wanted mankind to know.

He then gave that Church the authority and command to make disciples of the world. Disciple means student. So, Jesus expected all of us to learn from the Church which He established to Teach mankind in His place.

The Church went into the world to Teach and wrote the New Testament as an aid in that goal. She also put the Old Testament together as further aid for that purpose.

Through the Church we learn that God has many requirements for the salvation of our souls and that the Church provides us with the grace (and therefore spiritual strength) to achieve this goal, if we desire it.

To summarize:

You have made for yourself a convenient shortcut in order to avoid keeping the Word of God while seeming to accept one verse in Scripture.

While I and all Catholics, obey God's Word entirely.

We are saved by faith and works, in a manner of speaking

 Catholic doctrine says:

...we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that
precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. (Trent VI, Chapter VIII)

Therefore, it is true, that we are saved by faith and works, but only in a manner of speaking.

Our faith does not save, we don't save ourselves.
Our works do not save, we don't save ourselves.

God saves those who demonstrate their faith in works of love. God grants eternal life to those who keep His Commandments.

Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



What say you?

Sincerely,

De Maria

To be deep in history

ETK@De Maria

No, pagan Rome couldn’t destroy Christianity (what I believe)

DM-That is true. Pagan Rome could not destroy the Catholic Church.

ETC-so the emperor Constantine brought it on as the official religion mixed with paganism.

DM-Nope. St. Constantine's mom, St. Helen, had converted to Catholicism. Since, Catholics were enemies of the state, in order to avoid from having to prosecute his own mom, St. Constantine made Catholicism one of the official religions. He later converted.

ETC-GO AND READ HISTORY. Not catholic history. Unbelievable

DM-I've read history from every angle. Only the Protestants adhere to this cocamamie story you just repeated.

Baptism is for us and for our children

 ETC said:Acts 16 verse 32 And they spake unto him the word of the lord and to all that were in the house. Ummmmmm last time I spoke to my 3 month old they had NO IDEA what I’m saying. Let alone the gospel.

Hahahahahaha

DM-Therefore you denied your child entrance into the Kingdom of God? That's like saying, "Hey, the kid didn't understand that he shouldn't play in the middle of the highway. Therefore, I left him there." In denying your child entrance into the Kingdom of God, you have rejected the gift of the Holy Spirit indwelling his soul and therefore given him over to Satan. Pray that your child doesn't die before he can make a profession of faith.

ETC-I’m done with you. This just shows u want to argue. ur a heretic end of story. Repent of ur pagan Rome beliefs before it’s too late.

DM-The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established and the instrument through which He speaks to the world. Repent of your sins and run to the Catholic Church, you and your household, before its too late.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 20

 

De Maria

2 days ago

BL,

Sounds as though you're getting closer to the truth. Now turn to the Church, which Jesus Christ established, the Catholic Church and you shall be saved. Eph 3:10; Matt 18:17; 1 Tim 3:15

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 19

 

De Maria

21 hours ago

JB-@De Maria "There is none holy as the Lord; for there is none beside Thee.'' -1Samuel 2:2-4 JM-Are you saying that Scripture is wrong? 1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. JB-"But this one after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God." - Hebrews 10:12 DM-That's true. And we are His body. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: .... JB-"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (to worship or pray to). No one prayed to the cherubs. No one prayed to the brazen serpent. They just had to look upon it.) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or the earth below." Exodus 20:4 DM-I see. You're hung up with the word, "pray". The Catholic Church is ancient. It is the Church Jesus Christ established and it understands the word, pray, the way Scripture uses it. Now, let me show you: Genesis 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee. Is Abram here, worshipping his sister, Sarai? Or is he asking her for a favor? In the same way, when we pray to the Saints, we don't worship them. We merely ask our fellow citizens in the City of God, to interecede on our behalf. JB-Hide yor Mary statues and stp kneeling before them. In fact stop praying to Mary and pray to Jesus who hears your prayers and can actually do something for you. DM-That just shows your lack of faith. See, Jesus said: John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Thus, Mary and all the Saints are still alive in Christ. And therefore, they will intercede when we ask them to do so (pray). Hebrews 12:22-24 King James Version 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. JB-Do Catholics check with their Catholic neighbors to see what sort of works they are doing to get to heaven and if they've done enough each week? Do they keep a list to show the Lord how they earned salvation? DM-No. We hope in Christ. 1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Why do you ask? Do you check with your Protestant neighbors to judge if you have enough faith to be saved? If you do, you're doing it wrong. 1 Samuel 16:7.... for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. JB- Over and out. DM-Good night.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 18

 

De Maria

22 hours ago (edited)

 JB-@De Maria The Catholic Church took out the second commandment because it dealt with idol worship. Gee, I wonder why? DM-No, John, she didn't. The Catholic Church enumerates the Commandments correctly. Now, let's read that Commandment and see how the Protestants mess it up. Here's the Catholic enumeration. 1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve. 2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.... Here's the Protestant. 1. You shall have no other gods but me. 2. You shall not make unto you any graven images.... Notice how the Protestant #2 immediately contradicts the Word of God, because God. Because God Himself commands the Israelites to make a graven image. Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. Numbers 21:8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. But the Catholic Church understands that images are fine, as long as you don't worship them. Otherwise, if you can't have images, then get rid of your television, your camera, your pictures and all other things that make images and toss the images in your home, car, wallet and anywhere else. JB-"Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood."- Revelation 1:5 It's the blood of Jesus that wipes away all our sins, not our works. DM-True. We get the Blood of Christ from the Eucharist. Where do you get it since you reject and deny the Eucharist? 1 Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? And remember, without good works you will not receive the Blood of Christ: Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. JB-Those of us who are saved are in the arms of the Lord forever. Hallelujah! DM-As long as you don't fall away: 1 Corinthians 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. JB-Good luck with working for your salvation. DM-Good luck judging yourself saved. I will continue to obey the Word of God and work for my salvation as God demands: Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. I think salvation is worth the effort. 2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. JB-The Jesus I worship paid for my salvation in full. DM-The Jesus I worship requires me to imitate Him and become truly holy, as He is holy. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Hebrews 12:14 King James Version 14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 17

 

De Maria

23 hours ago

 JB-@De Maria There is no one on earth who has ever kept the commandments of God DM-when the rich young man said he had kept the Commandments, Jesus didn't say he was lying. JB-because there are a lot more than 10. DM-Jesus reduced them to two. JB-We can't keep them all because we are sinners. Try as you may, you are going to sin. You are going to be out of the will of God sometime. DM-have you ever heard of confession and repentance? Do you believe that God is unmerciful and unforgiving? JB- That's why we pray to Jesus (not priests) to forgive us our sins. DM-Have you ever read this verse? 2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. Christ died for sinners. Let's break that down. 1. God has given men the word of reconciliation. 2. Those men beseech you as though God were beseeching you. In other words, they represent God to you. 3. Those men also pray to God for you IN CHRIST'S STEAD. In other words, in the person of Christ. That's all Catholic Teaching. Our priests all represent God for us. Now, lets look at another. Hebrews 13:17Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. 1. The Word of God is telling us to obey men. Which men? Obviously, our priests since they are our rulers in the Church. 2. We must submit to these men freely and obediently. 3. They watch over our souls. 4. And they make an account to God for our souls. Do you have anyone in your religion whom you recognize with such authority before God? If not, then you're not in Christ's Church. JB-Not for those who overcome all sin because those people do not exist. No wonder Catholics don't know if they are going to Heaven or not. I feel sorry for them. DM-I know I've already proved this objection wrong. So, that means you're not reading what I'm saying. First of all, Scripture tells us not judge ourselves saved and to leave judgment to God: 1 Corinthians 4:2-4 King James Version 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Secondly, it is God who judges whether a man has overcome all sin. Not you. Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. JB- Read the Bible verses that assure all those who put their faith in Jesus Christ will be saved...now and forever. Amen. DM-Lol! I read all of Scripture and put all the verses into context. You pick some and discard others. Yes, God assures us salvation, IF we keep the commandments. Not if we don't. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Sin unto death. Obedience unto righteousness. Faith alone is dead.

Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 16

 De Maria

1 day ago

 JB-@De Maria Roman Catholics have never understood salvation. It is a gift of God. Do you understand what a gift is? DM-Yeah, I do. I don't think you do. Now, let's say that your child is in school and in order to encourage him to make good grades, you freely make this promise. If you get all A's, I will buy you a new bicycle. Now, the child gets all A's. Did he, therefore, earn the bike? No, he didn't. Here's the proof. He goes to the store and hands his report card to the attendant and says, "my dad promised me a new bike if I got all A's." What will the attendant say? "Your dad may have promised you, but I didn't. Get your dad or get the money and we can do business." The child did not earn nor merit the bike in anyway, EXCEPT ONE. In your eyes. He merited the bike because you promised it and you obligated YOURSELF. He didn't hold a gun to your head and say, "Buy me the bike." Its a free gift, freely offered, freely given. Now, let's read Scripture. Hebrews 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: What oath did God make? He offered salvation to those who keep His Commandments. Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. He offered salvation to those who obey His Son. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; JB-The verses you quote hAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. CHRIST KEEPS US, NOT WORKS. WORKS IS SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DO AFTER SALVATION. Jesus didn't give any caveats to salvation. DM-Actually, He did. Several times. You just don't want to believe His Word. Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. Matt 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. and there's many other admonitions which He gave us to Teach us that we must do the will of God if we want to be saved.