Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 6

 

De Maria

1 day ago

 BL-Well they may be true to you but not necessarily true to scripture. DM-On the contrary, they are absolutely true to Scripture since Scripture is based upon the Teachings of the Catholic Church. Jesus did not write any Scripture. He commanded the Church to teach and the New Testament is the result of the Teaching of the Church. BL-Purgatory and indulgences are both taught as truth but the only way to provide biblical verses to prove them is by taking verses out of context. DM-Let's see. Thanks for combining Purgatory and indulgences since they are basically the same Teaching. Both are based on the fact that there is a Heavenly Treasury where our good works are stored and God uses them to cleanse our souls of sin. There are many Scriptures to support both Teachings, but here is one, show me where it is out of context: Luke 12:33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. Notice that Jesus is Teaching us to buy our way into heaven. With our alms we buy bags of heavenly treasure. Question, what is the heavenly treasure for? Answer, to release us from Purgatory. What is another name for the heavenly treasure? Indulgences. BL- justification is God's righteous act of removing the condemnation, guilt, and penalty of sin, by grace, while, at the same time, declaring the unrighteous to be righteous, through faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice. DM-Another word for God's righteous act which you describe above is "forgiveness". What must one DO in order to receive this forgiveness? Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Do you deny that repentance is necessary? BL-God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9) DM-That describes that which happens in the Sacraments. It is in the Sacraments that we are saved by grace when we proclaim our faith in Jesus Christ. It is not our work, but the work of God. However, only those who have done good works can present themselves for the Sacraments. Notice Titus 3:5 says, "not by the righteous works are we saved, but by His mercy in the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. This is the operation of God in which we must have faith. Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. BL-In his letter to the Galatians, Paul argues for “faith in Jesus Christ” as the sole avenue to “justification.” (Galatians 2: 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.. DM-That doesn't mean what you think it means. Notice what it says about the Law of Moses, elsewhere in Scripture: Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses The Law of Moses does not produce perfect justification. It does not remove Original Sin. But expressing our faith in Jesus by accepting the operation of God, the regeneration and renewal of God the Holy Spirit, in Baptism, produces the perfect justification of the New Testament. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. BL-He expresses concern that the church in Galatia has returned to observance of the Mosaic Law and rituals and urges its members to despair of achieving justification through “human effort” and to instead solely embrace “faith expressing itself through love” . For Paul, “faith in Jesus Christ,” rather than adherence to Mosaic law, is the only way to be “justified.” DM-St. Paul is right. Notice that faith expressing itself in love, or better yet, Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Faith which worketh by love is also a human effort. Let's see what else St. Paul says in Galatians: Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. BL-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema. That is from the council of Trent and you might notice nowhere in the entire new testament do you find curses for anyone who does not believe exactly as you are told. DM-On the contrary, look at Gal 2:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. There are a few others, but you may not recognize them as curses. For example, Matthew 18:17 King James Version 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. To treat someone as a heathen and a publican is to cast them out of the Church and therefore to withhold from them the Sacraments of grace without which one can not be saved. BL- So I hold to scripture that tells me (Galatians 2:16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. DM-That is the Teaching of the Catholic Church. Faith in Jesus Christ is taught only in the Catholic Church. BL-And I do not hold to any church council that employs curses for obedience! DM-Then you deny the Teaching of Scripture. BL-2 Thess 2:15 A verse out of context. What is therefore there for? It tells you that the belief in the resurrection discussed in the preceding chapter is what Paul is referencing here , not that all traditions must be accepted. DM-So all you need to believe is the resurrection? Is that what you mean? Whereas, it is obvious that he is making reference to all of the Doctrines which are Taught by the Church because they come directly from Jesus Christ. Now, I also mentioned James 2:24 which says: James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. By works a man is justified, not by faith alone BL-Any doctrine not found in contextual scripture should not be taught by any church regardless of whether it be Catholic or denominational. It is the Church which teaches the Word of God, just as commanded by Christ and there are many members in the church doing just that spreading the Gospel . DM-The doctrines of faith alone and Scripture alone are not taught in contextual Scripture. Any doctrine which contradicts the Catholic Church will not be found in contextual scripture.

Catholics approach the Word of God in the manner which Scripture Teaches

Anti-Catholic asks:
Where does the RC go to find out if they have the correct interpretation of a verse or passage if the RCC has never officially interpreted all the verses of the Bible?

Catholics approach the Word of God (that includes the Bible) in a manner fundamentally different than Protestants. We approach the Word of God in the manner which Scripture recommends. We learn the Word of God from our teachers (Heb 13:7). We learn the Word of God in Sacred Tradition and in the Sacred Writings (2Thess 2:15). When we do focus upon the Scriptures, we don’t neglect the spiritual meaning of the Word (2 Cor 3:6).

And most importantly, as Catholics, we understand that we are fallible. We also believe that God has established an infallible Teacher of His Wisdom (Eph 3:10). Therefore, we don’t go around re-interpreting what the Church has already explained. Since it is the Church which is called the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth (1 Tim 3:15), when it comes to Scripture, we believe the Church.

Protestants, on the other hand, discover the Word of God every time the open the Bible. That’s why they come up with so many innovations. That’s why they come up with so many errors.

The Word of God comes in the Traditions of Jesus Christ and Scripture

Anti-Catholic says:
Many Catholics DO know the Bible very well. But most lay people do not.
This is my experience as a 35 year Catholic. Most of my family are Catholics and extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces and nephews) are pretty much clueless when it comes to the Bible. And some of them are very active in the Catholic Church.
Most Lutherans don’t know it very well, either.
Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses, on the other hand, know it very well. And haven’t got a clue as to what it all means.

Please don’t be offended, but the truth is, most Catholic lay people know the Word of God better than any Protestant.

The Word of God comes in the Traditions of Jesus Christ and Scripture. The Traditions of Jesus Christ are essential for a proper understanding of the Word of God. They are the underpinning of the Scriptures. Jesus did not write Scripture. He established a Church and deposited in that Church the Traditions. It is based upon these Traditions that the Church wrote the New Testament.

And Protestants who think they know the Bible are only repeating the extra-biblical traditions of men taught them by their respective churches. They rejected the true Word of God when they rejected the Traditions of Jesus Christ. Now they try to pin the Word of God on top of traditions and practices which can nowhere be found in the Bible.

That’s the truth.

Sincerely,

De Maria