SS April 25, 2013 at 4:29 pm Not so. Isaiah 22: 20 “In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. 21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah. 22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 23 I will drive him like a peg into a firm place; he will become a seat of honor for the house of his father. 24 All the glory of his family will hang on him: its offspring and offshoots—all its lesser vessels, from the bowls to all the jars. Rev 3:7 says: “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens , says this”
Isaiah 22 and Eliakim point to Christ, not Peter.
Please explain why Isaiah 2 and Eliakim can not point to both Christ and St. Peter.
There’s only one key involved here (key not ‘keys’), the key to the House of David. And the one who holds that key is Christ, as the above in Revelation states clearly.
The metaphor is not about the number of keys in possession, but about the ability to bind and loose in the Kingdom of Heaven which is the same thing as the House of David because Christ rules there.
1. These are the things which you neglect. Christ is the King of Kings. Therefore, He always has the Key. Just because He gave a set to St. Peter doesn't mean that He would therefore be unable to open the doors of His own household.
2. But St. Peter is the Prime minister, just as Eliakim, and he possesses the keys not by right of birth, but by the grace of God, just like Eliakim.
3. As for the number of keys, it is the same metaphor. The keys or key symbolize the power to bind and loose in the Kingdom of Heaven. If anything, the fact that Jesus gave St. Peter a set of keys means that he has more power than did Eliakim of old. Not less. And it certainly doesn't mean that Jesus gave away His own set of keys.
What should I make of Eph 2:20---" having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,.."? If "Peter is the bedrock upon which the Church is built" why doesn't Eph 2:20 say this?
Because Eph 2:20 is using a different metaphor.
Scripture says that God is our Rock:
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Do you really believe that God is an actual rock? No. Its a metaphor.
Why does Eph 2:20 say that the apostles (not just Peter) but all apostles with the prophets are the foundation?
Because they were the first people whom Christ selected to be in His Church.
You also have the problem with Peter who never claims to be sole foundation of the church and that no apostle attributes such a thing to him.
All Apostles call him "Peter". His birth name is "Simon". Even you call him, Peter. In so doing, you and they acknowledge the great honor which Jesus Christ gave St. Peter when He named him after Himself. Because, you see, Jesus was the Rock before Simon. When Jesus named Simon, "Rock", He did it to show the world that Simon would become His Representative upon this earth.
Again, in calling him, Peter, they acknowledged everything which Jesus Christ promised to the man, because in that same instance, Christ changed his name from Simon to Peter.
If they wanted to deny this, they would also deny his name change. But just as God changed Abram's name to Abraham, Jesus' changed Simon's name to Peter to designate the mission to which he was now appointed. To become the Father of the Church. The Prince of the Apostles. The Vicar of Christ. As it also says in Scripture elsewhere:
John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Not sure what Rev 214 has to do with this. Its not even about foundations.
It is a different metaphor. Or did you think the Apostles are 12 stones?
Anonymous said... What should I make of Eph 2:20---" having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,.."?
If "Peter is the bedrock upon which the Church is built" why doesn't Eph 2:20 say this?
Because Eph 2:20 is using a different metaphor.
Scripture says that God is our Rock:
Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Do you really believe that God is an actual rock? No. Its a metaphor.
Why does Eph 2:20 say that the apostles (not just Peter) but all apostles with the prophets are the foundation?
Because they were the first people whom Christ selected to be in His Church.
You also have the problem with Peter who never claims to be sole foundation of the church and that no apostle attributes such a thing to him.
All Apostles call him "Peter". His birth name is "Simon". Even you call him, Peter. In so doing, you and they acknowledge the great honor which Jesus Christ gave St. Peter when He named him after Himself. Because, you see, Jesus was the Rock before Simon. When Jesus named Simon, "Rock", He did it to show the world that Simon would become His Representative upon this earth.
In light of scripture in Ephesians 3:2-4, there is no “exclusivity” in the Kingdom of God.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I see nothing there which addresses “exclusivity”. Ephesians 3:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Scripture clearly says that St.Peter was the apostle to the “Jews” while St.Paul was to the Gentiles.
Are you saying that Scripture exclusively appoints St. Peter to the Jews and St. Paul to the Gentiles? If so, then you are contradicting yourself.
And you are also wrong. Who said?
Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing,… rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
That’s why the Epistle of St.Paul to the Ephesians church is the”queen” of the New Testament epistles,
Really? Who made that decision? It sounds to me like a decision of men.
because it exhorts what God has wrought for all believers in Christ Jesus.
We find that exhortation in many Epistles:
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Colossians 2:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
So, I disagree in your evaluation of Ephesians as the “queen” of the Epistles. My favorite, is Romans 8: Romans 8:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
We are saved by “faith”
But not by faith alone.
and sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment we trusted completely in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:13 – In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise).
That is a reference to the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation. After one believes, he requests Baptism. After he receives Baptism, he is confirmed and is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.
St.Paul clearly teaches in Ephesians 2:14 that Christ is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us (Jews and Gentiles).
True. And notice that he does not shun the Jews but also teaches them as well as the Gentiles.
Jesus/God chose to reveal the revelation on the Grace of God thru his servant and apostle St.Paul and not St.Peter.
Through both. But mainly by St. Peter. True, St. Paul wrote more books. But St. Peter had been the Prince of the Apostles and leader of the Church for many years before St. Paul came on the scene.
Is St.Peter is the rock, than the revelation would have been given to him (St.Peter) instead, which is not. I trust what the scriptures says. I’m skeptical of what church fathers taught.
You don’t understand what Scripture teaches. Here is what St. Peter says:
2 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
You pit one Apostle against another as though they were from two different Churches. But there is only one Body of Christ. One Church. And He appointed St. Peter its leader and St. Paul one of his followers.
December 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM If we, being readers far away from the original readers in the 1st century, are so sure thatMatthew 16:16-19 teaches, by the very terminology itself, that Peter’s successors continue the “rock” function for the church, that “keys” denote succession (1 to 1) of a single person to take the office of Peter, and a Petrine Succession is clearly and unmistakably delineated from the text itself, then we are throwing many interpretations of Matthew 16 in the early fathers as if they had no clue what they are talking about.
Nope. I believe we’ve spoken before and if I remember correctly, you are Protestant. And the problem which Protestants have is what we call an “either/or” mentality.
The office of Peter and Petrine succession is not incompatible with anything else the Early Fathers have said. If you have one with which you are having a problem, post it and we can discuss it.
Having said that, the Church Fathers are not infallible. The Catholic Church is. Therefore, if it comes to a decision between what a Church Father may have said or what the Church says, we always follow the teaching of the Church: Ephesians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Godismyjudge said... Hi De Maria, Well, this is moreso my just going over what the Fathers had to say in favor of the Pope. But they never did teach Papal infalability. So I guess my point in this post was this statement: "I didn’t find anything in the Fathers that explicitly taught Papal infallibly or got into ex cathedra vs. non-ex cathedra statements by Popes. So right off the bat I would say the Fathers were not Roman Catholic. " At least, one Roman Catholic apologist wasn't able to produce such evidence from the Fathers. God be with you, Dan
Well, let's start with Scripture, if you don't mind.
Matthew 16:18-19
King James Version (KJV)
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
To me, that sounds as though Christ has just assured St. Peter, that when the Church begins its ministry, Christ will give him the charism of infallibility.
1. Tell me why you think this is a wrong interpretation.
2. If you still disagree with my interpretation, please explain why your interpretation should carry more weight than mine.
Jesus Christ declared the Pope infallible when He said:
Matthew 16:18-19 King James Version (KJV) 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Why did Jesus give Simon the name, “Rock”? Perhaps you never wondered. Here’s why. Because He wanted all to know that Simon would be he to whom all must turn who want to know God’s will. There is a precedent for this in Scripture:
Exodus 7:1 King James Version (KJV) 7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Exodus 18:13-15 King James Version (KJV) 13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.14 And when Moses’ father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?15 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:
Exodus 19:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord. God put Moses in a position of authority over the people. Jesus has done the same thing with Simon. God covered Moses with the Cloud, Jesus gave Simon His own name, Rock along with the keys to the Kingdom (Matt 16:18-19) and appointed him Shepherd over the Church (John 21:15-17).
In the same way, Jesus has appointed Simon as Shepherd over His flock.
John 21:15-17 King James Version (KJV) 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
And in order to bring this point home, Jesus gave Simon His own name, “Rock” or “Peter”. This is to signify the type of authority which Jesus has given to Simon. He has the authority to bind and loose in the God’s name.
Jesus, speaking to Simon, names him "Rock". That is the meaning of the name "Peter". Heretofore, the only Rock in Scripture has been God. Therefore, Jesus has given Simon, His own name. This is significant. It means that Simon is now God's representative upon earth. The rest follows logically.
Since Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that Jesus would organize His Church around St. Peter. This is why we can say that the Church is the Body of Christ. It is Christ's CORPORATION. St. Peter is the Chief Officer. The Apostles the Board of Directors.
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Again, because Peter is Christ's representative, it is logical that the Church will prevail against the gates of hell. Hell is in a state of siege from the moment that Jesus was conceived. Upon His death, Jesus stormed hell and set the captives free: Hebrews 9:15-17
King James Version (KJV) 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
From this point on, the Catholic Church which Jesus established has kept Satan in a state of siege. From the moment that any man is baptized, they are snatched out of Satan's hands and joined to the Church:
Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.….47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
The Catholic Church sets the captives free in the name of Jesus Christ. Therefore, the gates of hell do not prevail against that infallible institution which Jesus Christ built upon that infallible office.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Everything which Peter binds upon earth is bound in heaven. Everything he looses upon earth is loosed in heaven. That is not only infallibility. That is also saving power. God has given the office of Peter awesome power. And all that we can do is sit back and gasp: Matthew 9:8
King James Version (KJV) 8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
You can use this learning Rosary when you're exercising on a treadmill. Just put your smartphone on the book ledge and read along as you exercise.
Use the little checkbox
to keep track of your progress.
See the examples below:
*********************
Intention:
By praying this decade,
may God open our hearts
and minds
to a fuller understanding
of the Doctrines of the Catholic Church.
With the Crucifix make the Sign of the Cross.
And, since this is
a learning prayer,
let us make the
Triple Sign:
May the Word of God
be ever on my mind
(touch the crucifix to your forehead
then your nose
then your your left cheek
then your right cheek)
On my lips
(touch your nose
your chin
the left corner of your mouth
then the right corner of your mouth)
and in my heart
(cross your heart)
In the name
of the Father,
of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit
(Finish with
the regular sign
of the Cross
i.e. forehead, chest, shoulders)
and still on the Crucifix
pray the Apostle's Creed:
I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ,
His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived
by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified,
died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell;
the third day
He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God,
the Father almighty;
from thence He shall come to judge
the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body
and life everlasting.
Amen.
On the first big bead
pray the Our Father:
Our Father,
Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
On the next three beads
pray three Hail Mary's:
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.
For faith:
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith
it is impossible
to please him: ....
Hail Mary...
For hope:
Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope:....
Hail Mary...
For love:
Romans 13:10
....love is the fulfilling of the law.
Hail Mary...
On the next big bead
pray the Glory Be:
Glory be to the Father,
and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning,
is now,
and ever shall be,
world without end.
Amen.
************************************
Why do we believe
in the Pope?
Because
Jesus Christ appointed
a shepherd, one man
to oversee His Flock
John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, …. Feed my sheep.
still on the big bead:
Our Father...
First:
Scripture says that Jesus is the Rock
1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink
the same spiritual drink:
for they drank
of that spiritual Rock
that followed them:
and that Rock was Christ.
Hail Mary...
Second:
Scripture says that Jesus, the Rock gave Simon the name, "Rock" (Peter means Rock).
Matthew 16:18
18 And I say
also unto thee,
That thou art Peter,
and upon this rock
I will build
my church;
and the gates of hell
shall not prevail
against it.
Hail Mary...
Third:
This is to signify that Peter stood in place of Christ on earth
Matthew 16:19
19 And I will
give unto thee
the keys of the
kingdom of heaven:
and whatsoever
thou shalt bind
on earth
shall be bound
in heaven:
and whatsoever
thou shalt loose
on earth
shall be loosed
in heaven.
Hail Mary...
Fourth:
This is not new. God had in the past appointed Moses
Exodus 19:9
And the Lord said
unto Moses,
Lo, I come unto thee
in a thick cloud,
that the people may hear
when I speak with thee,
and believe thee for ever.
Hail Mary…
Fifth:
Peter is the one which Jesus appointed Shepherd over His flock
John 21:17
17 He saith unto him
the third time,
Simon, son of Jonas, l
ovest thou me?
Peter was grieved
because he said
unto him the third time,
Lovest thou me?
And he said unto him,
Lord, thou knowest
all things;
thou knowest
that I love thee.
Jesus saith unto him,
Feed my sheep.
Hail Mary...
Sixth: Peter is the one to whom Jesus gave the coin which Jesus was supposed to pay
Matthew 17:24
24 And when they
were come to Capernaum,
they that received
tribute money
came to Peter,
and said,
Doth not your
master pay tribute?...
27 Notwithstanding,
lest we should
offend them,
go thou to the sea,
and cast an hook,
and take up the fish
that first cometh up;
and when thou hast
opened his mouth,
thou shalt find
a piece of money:
that take, and
give unto them
for me and thee.
Hail Mary...
Seventh:
Peter is the one for whom Jesus prayed, that his faith would hold the church together
Luke 22:31-32
31 And the Lord said,
Simon, Simon, behold,
Satan hath desired
to have you,
that he may sift
you as wheat:
32 But I have
prayed for thee,
that thy faith fail not:
and when thou
art converted,
strengthen thy brethren.
Hail Mary...
Eighth:
Peter is the one who acted as the leader before Pentecost
Acts 1:15-17
15 And in those days
Peter stood up
in the midst of
the disciples,
and said, ...
16 Men and brethren, ...
Hail Mary...
Ninth:
Peter is the one who acted as the leader during Pentecost
Acts 2:14
14 But Peter,
standing up with
the eleven,
lifted up his voice,
and said unto them,
Ye men of Judaea,
and all ye that
dwell at Jerusalem,
be this known
unto you, and
hearken to my words:
Hail Mary…
Tenth:
Peter is the one who acted as the leader after Pentecost
Acts 15:7
7 And when there
had been much disputing,
Peter rose up,
and said unto them,
Men and brethren,
ye know how that
a good while ago
God made choice
among us,
that the Gentiles
by my mouth
should hear the word
of the gospel,
and believe.
HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy,
our life, our sweetness and our hope!
To thee do we cry,
poor banished children of Eve;
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us,
and after this our exile,
show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!
V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy
of the promises of Christ.
On the Crucifix,
end with the Sign of the Cross:
**********************
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please share with others
The basic problem here is that Catholics are assuming that St John means the same thing by “successor of Peter” as what the modern RCC view of the papacy take it to mean. However, there is every reason to believe that St John did not mean this in the same sense.
The basic problem is not that Catholics assume that St. John is accepting the proper interpretation of the phrase, “successor of Peter”.
The problem is that those who disagree with the Catholic Church on this point, are assuming the modern and erroneous view of the Papacy.
I think to properly understand this from an Orthodox perspective, we need to go back to Matthew 16:18-24.
According to Whelton (p.61), the 17th century RCC scholar Jean de Launoy surveyed the Fathers and found that 17 considered Peter to be the rock, 44 considered his confession to be the rock, 16 considered it to be Christ and 8 considered it to be the apostles. However, what these raw statistics fail to show is that these interpretations are all interlinked: In reality, the rock is all of these:-Christ is the rock (this is known from elsewhere).-The confession is the rock because it is a confession about Christ, Who is the rock.-Peter is the rock because he made this confession.-The apostles are also the rock because they made the same confession.
I would disagree. Jesus is the Rock, in another Biblical metaphor. But in Matt 16:18-19, Jesus is speaking to Simon and the Apostles, about Simon Bar Jonah. And Jesus is describing Simon as “the Rock” upon whom He will build His Church. He is not speaking about anyone else. And when He gives away the keys, He uses a singular pronoun, addressing the person to whom He gives the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. Simon Bar Jonah, aka as Cephas, Rock or Peter. He does not hand the keys to anyone else. He is not describing anyone else.
But the important thing to note about all of these interpretations is that they centre on the confession, and not on the person of Peter.
On the contrary, by centering on the confession, you center upon the man who uttered the confession. St. Peter is not the first man to utter this confession in the New Testament. Nathaniel does it the very first time he sees Jesus:
John 1:47-49
King James Version (KJV)
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Yet Jesus does not give Nathaniel any keys.
Another man also does it, Thomas: John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
So, the simple confession is not enough. The confession was uttered by a particular man and that man is the subject and object of the Master’s lesson.
And its not as though Jesus Christ only did this once. What I mean is that, this is not the only time Jesus singled out St. Peter and made it clear that He considered St. Peter the Leader of the Apostles and of His Church.
Luke 22:30-32
King James Version (KJV)
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
If Jesus had only done it once, it could be dismissed as coincidence. But Jesus reiterated the fact that He considered St. Peter the Leader of His Church, several times. Here’s another: Matthew 17:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
For me and thee.
But wait. In order to understand this verse, you must understand the verse you are questioning. Why did Jesus give Simon the name, “Rock”? Perhaps you never wondered. Here’s why.
Because He wanted all to know that Simon would be he to whom all must turn who want to know God’s will. There is a precedent for this in Scripture:
Exodus 7:1
King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Exodus 18:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.14 And when Moses’ father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?15 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:
Exodus 19:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
God put Moses in a position of authority over the people. Jesus has done the same thing with Simon. God covered Moses with the Cloud, Jesus gave Simon His own name, Rock along with the keys to the Kingdom (Matt 16:18-19) and appointed him Shepherd over the Church (John 21:15-17).
Jesus has appointed Simon as Shepherd over His flock. And in order to bring this point home, Jesus gave Simon His own name, “Rock” or “Peter”.
This is to signify the type of authority which Jesus has given to Simon. He has the authority to bind and loose in the God’s name.
And that is why, the coin is for Jesus and for Peter. Because Jesus knows that Peter is His representative to all mankind. Amongst men, St. Peter is the person of Christ in a very special way.
Peter, being the first to make this confession (remembering that the Latin for first is prima) quite literally has the primacy.
The primacy falls to him for other reasons. But not for being the first to make that confession. Nathaniel made it first as already mentioned.
Those that made the same confession after him are his successors.
Nope. He whom he appointed was his successor and the one appointed by that person, his successor.
And given that Peter’s authority rests on the confession that he made, his successors have the same authority that Peter does.
Many have made the same confession. But to none but St. Peter did Jesus turn and say, “you are Rock”, “I give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven”, “strengthen your brethren”, “this coin is for you and I”, and also, “feed my sheep”.
But the important thing to note in the above is the answer to the following question: who is Peter’s successor? ….
Non sequitur. That which you mentioned above is your line of reasoning. YOU proposed it. Now you are arguing against it. It is a classic “straw man argument.”
According to the above line of reasoning, those who made this confession is a successor of Peter. In short, every bishop is a successor of Peter – not just the bishops of Rome. Every bishop is a shepherd and must “feed Christ’s sheep” – that is, the Church that is placed under his guidance.
Nope. Successors of Peter are those who sit on the See of Rome. They are the ones to whom the Keys are passed down.
This understanding of the “successor of Peter” (which is also the Orthodox understanding) is also reflected in the writings of St Cyprian (another oft-miscited Father) – who uses the phrase “Chair of Peter” to refer to an episcopate. As far as St Cyprian is concerned, every bishop is the successor of St Peter.
I’d have to see the writings to which you refer. I believe it was St. Cyprian who wrote eloquently about the authority of the Pope. Until he found himself at odds with the Pope. Then, he changed his tune. But the fact that he recognized the truth until it was inconvenient to do so, proves that he understood the doctrine correctly before he changed his mind. The fact that he is considered one of our Saints, proves that he accepted the truth in the end.
There is every reason to assume that this is exactly the same interpretation that St John Chrysostom himself had in mind here, and Ray (and Pope Leo) are jumping to conclusions and not considering the wider context.
Not if the comment which Ray posted is compared to John 21:15-17. The reference to Jesus appointing Peter as the Shepherd of the entire Church, is unmistakable.
And just to put the final nail into the coffin,
You’ve put to rest the EO’s erroneous understanding. The Catholic doctrine stands tall.
and confirm that the Orthodox reading of St John Chrysostom is the correct one, let me tell you a little story…The most sensible way to understand his above words, then, is not as an argument for papal supremacy, but in-line with the Orthodox view – that is, every bishop is a successor of Peter (and not just the bishop of Rome).
Since you have shown a propensity to misunderstand the Scripture and the words of St. John Chrysostom, I take that story of yours with a mouthful of salt.
The argument which you attribute to the EO, has been proven false by a very simple review of the Scriptures and by referring St. John Chrysostom’s statement back to the Scripture to which he was obviously making reference.
The only way to come to the conclusion which you draw is by ignoring the Scripture to which St. John was referring and by purposesly rejecting Jesus’ intent in naming St. Peter the Leader of His Church and Shepherd over His Flock.
Here is James decided the first decision of the first council in Acts 15
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15 With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ‘After these things I will return,And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen,And I will rebuild its ruins,And I will restore it,17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’18 Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.19 Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. BTW- there is no office of priest mentioned as part of the NT church. Nor is there any mention of the papacy as part of the leadership of the church in the NT.
Response:
On the contrary, in that same Council, it was St. Peter who decided the outcome saying:
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence,....
It is St. Peter who resolved the issue and the others, including St. James, obediently followed through.
Deuteronomy 32:4
King James Version (KJV) 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
And also:
1 Corinthians 10:4
King James Version (KJV) 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Now consider, God is our Rock and Jesus is the Rock, correct?
