Can a Saint sin?

Recently, someone on the internet said that once a man is justified, he becomes a saint and can no longer sin willfully. This is a Reformed doctrine which comes from a misunderstanding of St. Paul's Teaching that salvation is "not by works." But that is all it is, a misunderstanding. Read more...

Where does the Bible say that people in heaven can hear our prayers?

I hate to answer a question with a question, but please bear with me. Do you believe in the Trinity? I’m assuming that you do. 
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Praying to dead saints

Just my two cents. The Bible does not say anything about praying to “dead” saints.

The Bible simply commands the Saints in Christ to pray for “all” (1 Timothy 2:1). We don’t cease to become members of the Body of Christ when we die. Therefore, we don’t cease to pray when we die. If anything, our prayer becomes more perfect as we get closer to the source of our spiritual life (2 Corinthians 5:8).

The New Testament is a new dispensation in Christ. This is clearly expressed in the book of Hebrews. Where the Old Testament is described, it says:

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

But the New Covenant in the name of Jesus Christ is totally different. We are living amongst our brethren. How can it be that we are not permitted to communicate with those amongst whom we live?

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Christ is our example. And it is He who first portrayed the new dispensation of the communion of saints, when, still in the flesh, he climbed the Mountain of Tabor and spoke freely with Moses and Elijah in the company of Peter, James and John (Matthew 17:1-3).

Therefore, although the Bible does not give an explicit command to pray to dead saints. The New Testament teaches, by example and implication, that we who are born again in Christ are living in and amongst the saints upon Mount Sion. And since we are living amongst them, we are free to communicate with them.

Who wants Intercessory Prayer?

How many of you want intercessory prayer? How many of you need intercessory prayer? How many of you want to intercede for those whom you love? I know I do. I want people to intercede for me, and I pray for all whom I love, whether they be dead or alive, everyday. 
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Keeping track of the Saints

Lutero said:
DeMaria - Are you saying that you honestly believe that the Roman Catholic Church keeps track of the Roman Catholics that are in heaven?

Those whom God wishes to be recognized here on earth.

In like manner, do you also believe that the RCC keeps a written account of the Roman Catholics that are in hell?

Why would I believe that?

Do they also keep a daily tally of the "poor souls in purgatory?"

Nope.

How is the RCC's knowledge obtained to make these lofty claims? Do they use an "RC's IN and an RC's OUT basket, or is all their record keeping of souls computerized now?

The Holy Spirit communicates it to the Church.

John 14:26

King James Version (KJV)
²⁶ But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Sincerely,

De Maria

You have no idea who is in heaven

Lutero
You have no idea who is in heaven either, but that doesn't stop you praying to them. How very odd.

Yes we do. The Church recognizes individuals who lived such holy lives that they set examples for others to follow:
Hebrews 6:12

King James Version (KJV)
¹² That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Respect the Saints

Hi Lutero,

Lets agree on some definitions, ok?

Ok.

We also refer to the post http://www.catholic-convert.com/2011/10/18/do-catholics-worship-mary-3/ ok?

Ok.

Definitions from http://www.dictionary.com:
HONOR = high respect.
PRAY= to make earnest petition to (a person).
WORSHIP = reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

Steve mentions “honor’ (which means respect) in his article is what the Catholic Church teaches.

Correct.

But when Catholics make the pilgrimages to Marian shrines, it is said as paying homage to the Blessed Virgin which also amounts to Worship as per the said definitions.

1st. You didn’t include a definition for homage. Here’s the definition from Dictionary.com:
Homage – respect or reverence paid or rendered

That says nothing about worship.

2nd. Homage and respect directed to God, is worship. Homage can be directed to God or man. When it is directed to God, it is part of man’s worship of God. When it is directed to man, it is part of man’s respect for that man.

Therefore homage is also Honor and Worship meaning the same thing.

Not the same thing. Have you ever heard of context? We can honor dogs. Dogs have done heroic things in the service of man. Yet that is not worship. I can pay homage to a President or other important person. That is not worship. I like the Merriam Webster online because it shows examples of how to use a word. Here are the examples it gives:
Examples of HOMAGE

1. Her book is a homage to her favorite city.
2. the poem is a moving homage to all who have served in our nation’s armed services

Garlanding idol statues and chanting prayers is also Worship and Honor as per the definitions.

1. We have no idols in the Catholic Church.
2. Putting garlands on images of famous and beloved persons, such as the Saints or war heroes, simply honors the person. The image knows nothing and feels nothing. It is like the images you carry in your wallet or keep on your cell phone. They are reminders of they whom we love.

Catholics petition “prayers” to Mary/Saints .. In scripture, Prayer was undoubtedly a part of the pubic worship in the first-century church and Prayer offered to God in accordance with His will is one of the most common expressions of worship in the church that Jesus built. I am reminded of Acts 2:42, where we read, “And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.”

1. Apostles doctrine, fellowship and breaking bread, that is a description of the Mass.
2. By first century, you mean, in Scripture. There are many examples of prayer to Saints in Scripture, if you simply look for them:
Psalm 103:20
Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Psalm 148:2
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

In prayer we give voice to our reverence for God, and that is in a large measure what worship is all about. By taking our petitions and thanksgiving to God, we are freely admitting and acknowledging our absolute dependence upon, and trust in, Him. Paul exhorted the early Christians to fill their lives with prayer. Remember 1 Thessalonians 5:17, “Pray without ceasing.”

Yeah. Remember 1 Thess 5:24? How about 1 Timothy 2:1? Do you think that Christians who die and yet live in Christ, will stop praying simply because they are dead? Do you not believe what Christ said (Luke 20:38; John 11:25)?

In petitioning prayers or paying homage to Mary amounts to worship and deification, because it wasn’t case in the first century Church.

Yes, it was. Luke 1:26-30; 41; 42 all pay great homage to Mary because this is the Word of God. And God commands us to continue paying great homage to Mary; Luke 1:48.

In fact Jesus recommended his disciples to pray to the Father in his name so we have to be obedient what Jesus commands if we are to brag that it was the Catholic Jesus established .

We do pray to the Father in Jesus name. But we also ask others to pray for us in obedience to Scripture:
Job 42:8; James 5:16-17

Sincerely,

De Maria

Familiar Spirits.

Lutero said:

Praying to the saints is the sin of praying to  "familiar spirits" is what it is, and it is strictly forbidden by God saying thus directly to Israel;

Scripture says:

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

(Lev 20:6) And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

We don't do that. We simply love the Saints which God loves and we acknowledge that they have received the promises which God made. We also acknowledge that they are alive in Christ.

Hebrews 6:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

1 Corinthians 15:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Honour Mary and the Saints

Lutero:

I second that. Yes we have to honour Mary, the Saints all who glorify and submit to the will of God.

When and how do you ever honor Mary and the Saints? The Catholic Church does so in prayers and feasts. When and how do you ever honor God’s elect?

But cannot elevate them to God status, because in the Body of Christ, God is not a “respecter” of persons Acts 10:34.

That is true. God is not a respecter of persons. But how do you and the Protestants get that phrase so confounded? It doesn’t mean that God does not reward the faithful (Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 3:10-15). It doesn’t mean that God doesn’t listen to Righteous People (James 5:15-20). It doesn’t mean that God does not distinguish between the Righteous and the Sinners (Matt 25:31-45).

Note how God listened to Job, but not to Job’s friends (Job 42:8).
Note how God explicitly told Aaron and Miriam that He loved Moses more than they (Numbers 12:1-9).

So what does it mean, God is no respecter of persons? It means that God does not look at appearances. God does not save a Jew because he is circumcised nor a rich man because he is rich. God saves only those who obey Him and keep His Commandments (Romans 2:1-13).

And Jesus, God, loves Mary with a love which can not be measured or understood by any man or any woman. He is her Son, conceived in Her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit. No man can honestly expect God to love him more than God loves the Mother of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Should we pray to saints?

Lutero asks: 

Does the Bible teach that we should pray to the saints?

Yes.  When understood correctly.  The main difference between Protestant and Catholic understanding of Scripture is the idea of "Sola Scriptura" or "Scripture alone".  The teaching that Scripture is the only source of doctrinal truth and that doctrine must be "explicit" in Scripture in order for it to be true.

The first problem with that teaching is that IT isn't in Scripture.
The next is that it actually contradicts Scripture.  Since Scripture tells us that the Church teaches the Wisdom of God (Eph 3:10) and that we must also hold to Traditions (2 Thess 2:15).

As for Catholics, we are taught to understand the Spirit of the Word of God.  Because Scripture says that the letter kills:

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Therefore, a literal understanding of the Word of God is unsuitable for understanding the spiritual teachings therein contained.

Jesus Christ taught His followers to pray to "our Father in heaven"  and throughout Scripture prayer is communication with God and part of our worship of Him.

That is true.  But Jesus also taught by example.  And Jesus communicated with "dead" saints on Mount Tabor:

Mark 9:4
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

What else does the Bible say? Paul instructed "prayers to God" (Romans 15:30
). Moses was to "pray to the Lord" (Numbers 21:7
), and David sang to God "to You I will pray" (Psalm 5:2
). Christians can come directly to God's throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16
), and the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ intercedes for us (Hebrews 7:25
). We don't need saints to do that.

Whether we need them or not is really besides the point.  The fact is that God has given all saints a mandate to intercede for all mankind.  And they are under the same mandate.  Since, as you have seen, "dead" saints are alive in Christ.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Romans 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Scripture shows saints refusing to accept the worship of people (Acts 10:26
; 14:8-18). The Bible also tells us not to worship angels (Colossians 2:18
), and it shows that angels refuse adoration and worship by humans (Revelation 19:10
).

This is true.  But we don't worship people or angels.  You see...

...The Catholic Church is the ancient Church of Christianity.  The One which Jesus Christ established. Let me show you.

First, Jesus Christ appointed a Pastor as head of the entire Church:
John 21:17
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

I see only a few Churches with such a Pastor. Further, Jesus Christ said that the Pastor over His Church would be infallible:

Matthew 16:17-19 (King James Version)
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The list of Churches accept this teaching gets smaller. Certainly, all Protestant denominations can now be eliminated.

Jesus Christ not only said that the Pastor was infallible but Scripture describes the Church as infallible:
Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The list remains the same, but now I can certainly eliminate all Protestant denominations.

Back to Matt 16:18, Scripture says that Jesus Christ established one Church. History shows that all the Churches sprang from the Church which is frequently described as the Mother Church. The Catholic Church.

By simple logic of elimination, that leaves only the Catholic Church.

SO?  Why did I go through that exercise?  Simply to be able to explain that the Catholic Church still uses the old definitions of words.  Definitions which are all but forgotten in today's society.

To us, "pray" does not necessarily mean "worship".  That certainly is one of the meanings of the word.  But evrery word has more than one meaning.  And "pray" originally meant "implore".  Therefore, we still occasionally hear someone say to another, "I pray, won't you pass the salt?"

Here's the Merriam Webster definition of pray:


Definition of PRAY
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea <pray be careful>

2: to get or bring by praying

The same goes for the word "worship".  It includes the meaning of "respect".

Definition of WORSHIP

transitive verb

1: to honor or reverence as a divine being or supernatural power

2: to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion <a celebrity worshipped by her fans>

And we see in Scripture, both words used in address to creatures:

Genesis 12:13

Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

Joshua 5:14

And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant.

Notice also Revelation 22:9
, where the apostle John saw in vision the time after the resurrection and fell down in awe at the feet of the being talking to him. "Then he said to me, 'See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.'"

Obviously, St. John confused an angel for God.  But note how Joshua did reverence to an Angel described as the Captain of the host of the Lord.  According to Scripture, that is the Angel Michael:

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Therefore, Joshua offered the right kind of worship or reverence to the Angel.  Whereas St. John confused the angel for the Divine Being.

Righteous created beings, whether human or angelic, refuse to be worshipped and they point us to worship the Creator. Only Satan and his followers seek others' adoration and worship (Matthew 4:9
; Acts 8:9-11

; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
).

They seek "adoration" as God.  But even the word "adoration" has other meanings.  Have you ever heard a husband or wife say to the significant other, "I adore you."  Do you think they consider the other person to be God?  I don't.  I think they simply love each other exceedingly.

Now, Satan and his followers seek to replace God.  And they do want us to worship them as God.

In addition to all this, praying to dead saints today assumes the doctrine of the immortal soul, which many people are surprised to find is not taught in the Bible. The Bible teaches that death is like sleep that lasts until the resurrection at Jesus Christ's second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:13-16


).

I think Abraham, Elijah and Moses will be surprised to hear that news:


Luke 16:23-25
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.


All these folks are dead and yet they are having a pretty lively conversation.

And we noted above that Jesus was conversing with those dead fellas, Moses and Elijah.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Rational explanation for prayer to Saints

Lutero said:

No one in Scripture EVER prayed to any non-gods such as peter, paul, or mary.

Scripture depicts Dives beseeching Abraham:

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Please EXPLAIN HOW (no catholic seems to explain how) it is NOT worship to:
kneel down before the image of a man
cross yourself before prayer

First, it is because we know the difference between man and God. We do not worship men no matter what position we may take before them.

When we kneel down in prayer to God,  we humble ourselves before God. 

But when we kneel down in prayer before the image of a Saint, we are humbling ourselves before those men who have been made perfect by God.  There is no sin in humbling ourselves before men, because Jesus Himself did so:

Luke 2:51

King James Version (KJV)

⁵¹ And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

When we make the sign of the Cross, we are remembering the Crucifixion and uniting ourselves to Christ crucified (Gal 2:20).

close your eyes, clasp your hands, say prayers

Really?  You object to our closing our eyes, clasping our hands and saying our prayers?

ALL OF THOSE THINGS TOGETHER. What about them?

So far NO CATHOLIC SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO demonstrate that doing all that stuff is NOT WORSHIP. 

Worship according to the modern interpretation is to adore. We only adore God.

According to the "modern" interpretation is correct.  But our Church was instituted by Christ.  It is an ancient Church with ancient terminology which still conveys the ancient meaning.

What does this say?

Joshua 5:14
King James Version (KJV)
¹⁴ And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

Do you think that Joshua was adoring St. Michael, the Archangel.  Because that is who is captain of the host of the Lord.  An Angel.

Didn't you know?

Revelation 12:7
King James Version (KJV)
⁷ And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

However, we  venerate or respect and love the angels and our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I would REALLY LIKE to see a rational "explanation" of how it is not. It won't do you any good.

I'm sure you've seen many.  But you will not understand until God calls you to understand.  As Scripture says:

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Love is the key.

in the Name of the BIBLICAL Jesus Christ, The Biblical Jesus wants you to submit to His Church, not to make up your own religion:

That is true.  So why have you made up your own?  Here is what Scripture says:

Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Scripture doesn't give you license to set aside Christ's Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Faith and works in Scripture cont'd

continued from this article:

I thought I would be discussing faith and works salvation with Ken on the Beggars All Reformation Blog.  However, my last comment is gathering dust.  No one to talk to.  But rather than sit around feeling sorry for myself, I remember that  Ken had submitted a comment which amounted to a shotgun blast of objections to Catholic Teaching.  Too many to respond to at one sitting.  So, I had set it aside assuming my time would be tied up in a hot debate which never occurred.  Oh well, that means I have time to respond to the previously ignored comments.  So, for anyone interested, here we go.  Ken's words are in blue and indented:

but upon deeper investigation, (of the Catholic faith) it means that there are works one must do in order keep getting grace until final perseverance

Well, yes, that's in Scripture.

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Protestants believe that justification is a one time event, but it is clear from Scripture that it is done throughout our life.  And justification is the remission of sin which is only done by an infusion of grace.

As Scripture says:

James 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

God gives grace to the humble that they may serve Him in reverence and godly fear:

Hebrews 12:28
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

But God does not give grace to the proud.  He, in fact, permits Satan to punish them that they may saved on the day of Judgement:

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in theday of the Lord Jesus.

 and getting scrubbed clean in purgatory and passing through it, 

What would a Protestant discussion be like without an objection to the existence of Purgatory.  Let us look at the Scriptures.  First, my favorite:

1 Corinthians 3:15

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁵If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Who is this poor fella who is saved passing through fire and where is he?


Protestants have no answer.  But Catholic Teaching does.  That poor fellow is anyone who dies in an imperfect state of grace and he is in Purgatory.


And what about this verse:

1 Peter 3:19

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁹By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Where is this place which Scripture calls a prison within which spirits are incarcerated?

Protestants have no answer.  Only Catholic Teaching.  It is again Purgatory.

There are many more, but one final one:

Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

A prison, where the righteous are sent before they receive a crown of life?  No answer from Protestantism.  Only Catholic Teaching.  It is Purgatory.

and in order to stay in a state of grace. 

More accurately, in order to be purified and restored to a perfect state of grace and holiness without which one can not see God:

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁴Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

(baptism,

The first of the Seven Sacraments.  The Mighty Works of God which we accept by faith, believing in His Promises.  And which washes and regenerates us, renewing our souls as we call upon His Name:

Acts 22:16

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁶And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 partaking of the Lord’s supper,

Amen!  For it is by the eating of His Flesh and drinking of His Blood that we attain eternal life:

John 6:54

King James Version (KJV)

 ⁵⁴Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

obeying the Ten Commandments,

Yes indeed.  For so says Scripture:

Revelation 22:14

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁴Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

confession to the priest,

Jesus Christ gave His Church the power to forgive sins:

John 20:23

King James Version (KJV)

 ²³Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


And God's word tells us to submit and obey those whom God gave responsibility over our souls:

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

prayers to Mary for dispensing of grace from the treasury of merit; or some other saint;

Indeed.  This particular teaching is a bit more complex as it entails the combination of several doctrines.  First of all, prayer to Mary, especially praise, is taught in Scripture, if you know how to find it:  See this post.


Next, the dispensing of grace from the treasury of merit is called an indulgence.  The fact that this treasury exists is in Scripture:

Mark 12:43

King James Version (KJV)

 ⁴³And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

Combined with the fact that Jesus, all grace, came to us through Mary.  And the fact that God is absolute, and we come to understand that we must all come to Jesus, all grace, through Mary.  Which is why God gave her to us as our Mother:

Revelation 12:17

King James Version (KJV)

 ¹⁷And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Whew!  I'll take a break here.  But I'll continue dismantling this objection to Catholic Teaching in the next post.  For your information, the remainder of the offending comment follows. 

visiting saints graves, etc. fasting, extended times of more prayer, meditation, giving to the poor; doing what the priest says as the satisfaction aspect of penance, etc.) These things are contradictions to “by grace alone” (hence they contradict faith alone – Romans 4:16) and they contradict “not by our own works”. You don’t get grace dispensed to you from the treasury of merit, unless you do the works; and that only comes to you after you do those things; those good works, ceremonies, communion (partaking of the Lord’s Supper), hail Marys, prayers, fastings, almsgiving, and obeying the Ten Commandments, etc.<

No. 2068 in the RCC Catechism says, “The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians . . . so that all men may obtain salvation through faith, Baptism, and the observance of the Commandments.” ( p. 502, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Liberia Editrice Vatinaa, Imprimi Potest, Cardinal Ratzinger, 1994.

This is contradictory to RC claims that it is “not by our own works” and contradictory to “by grace alone”.
Also, the Catechism says:
No. 2010 “Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.” ( Ibid, p. 487)

Sincerely,


De Maria