Sola Scriptura is not mentioned in Scripture

Anonymous said...

I would agree there is no definition of Sola Scriptura in Scripture.

Nor is Sola Scriptura mentioned in Scripture. And the fact that Sola Scriptura is absent from Scripture tells us that Sola Scriptura is a doctrine of men. In fact, Sola Scriptura contradicts Scripture which tells us to keep Tradition (2 Thess 2:15).

What we do know about Scripture is that it alone is inspired-inerrant. It alone is the Word of God. 

Chapter and verse please.

What I see is Scripture says that Scripture is inspired (2 Tim 3:16). But it is the Church which tells you which books are Scripture and teaches that Scripture is without error.

Scripture also teaches that men are inspired of the Holy Spirit to speak and then to write the Scripture (2 Pet 19-21).

I also see that Scripture tells me that the Church teaches the Wisdom of God. I suppose that the Wisdom of God is also inspired-inerrant, wouldn't you agree?

I see no verse saying that Scripture ALONE is inspired-inerrant. So, please produce the chapter and verse.

What follows from this is that there is no higher or equal authority to the Scripture.

God is the highest authority in all matters. Scripture has no authority except as a rule upon which men can meditate to learn the Will of God. But the Church has been authorized to teach the Wisdom of God and to rule over men (Matt 28:19-20). And even to forgive their sins (John 20:22-23).

That is why its teachings are binding. Any teaching that contradicts Scripture or that Scripture does not address is not binding. 

You admitted in your first sentence that Scripture does not address the doctrine of Scripture alone. Therefore, by your own admission, Scripture alone is a false doctrine.

Eating meat on Friday during lent is an example of a teaching-practice that is not apostolic and thereby not binding. 

Abstinence from meat on Fridays is a Church discipline. And, as I have shown, Jesus Christ gave the Church authority over His disciples. Anyone who does not obey the Church is treated as a heathen (Matt 18:17).

Other doctrines of your church such as the Marian dogmas would be not binding nor apostolic.

Marian doctrines are in Scripture either explicit or implied. Sola Scriptura is totally absent from Scripture and contradicts the Word of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Catholic and Protestant presuppositions are different

So, then, it is paramount to discover which presupposition is true. Does that sound logical?

My fellow Catholics can correct me if I’m wrong. But I believe the Catholic Church teaches us the following.

1. Jesus Christ did not write any Scripture.
2. Jesus Christ established a Church.
3. Jesus Christ commanded the Church to teach all which He commanded.

Do you deny any of these three?

Those are the basis of our presupposition which can be found in CCC #113 2. Read the Scripture within “the living Tradition of the whole Church”. According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church’s heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God’s Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (“. . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church”).

We can also see this presupposition confirmed in Scripture and how the Apostles applied it:

Matthew 28:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Luke 24:44-46
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Acts 17:1-3
1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

So, to summarize, we believe that Jesus Christ established a Church and commanded that Church to pass on His Sacred Tradition. That Sacred Tradition includes the knowledge that the Old Testament Scriptures reveal Christ. In other words, the Sacred Tradition of Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament in the sense that it contains and explains how Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecies.

But that is not all. Sacred Tradition is the basis of the New Testament. Jesus Christ did not write it. His followers wrote it based upon His life, deeds and Teachings.

Therefore, one must know and understand Sacred Tradition in order to understand the Scriptures. And since the Church is the one which has maintained these Sacred Traditions, she is the one which best understands the Scriptures.

Basically, Protestants deny all of this.  They cast aside the authority of the Church, they cast aside the authority of Sacred Tradition.  They claim that all their authority is derived by their personal understanding of the Bible, in spite of the fact that the Bible nowhere authorizes such an attitude.

What say you?

What is the official Protestant definition of Sola Scriptura? No one seems to know.

Bob said:Celibacy was a later development in the RCC.

Correct. 1 Cor 7:32 is the basis for that change.

Paul lays out in 1 Tim 3 the qualifications for church leadership and part of it was to be a man who was married with children.

And yet St. Paul was not a man who was married with children. Did he thereby disqualify himself?

And what about our model and example? Jesus Christ Himself. Was He inadequate for the job because He was not married with children.

You see how Protestants cut off their nose to spite their face? If unmarried men are not qualified to run the Church, they disqualify several of the cornerstones of our Faith. Jesus, John the Evangelist, St. Paul. 

Revelation 14:3-5
King James Version (KJV)
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Bob said,

 You asked, What is the definition for Sola Scriptura?

That's right.  So, you tell me, from Scripture.

Sola Fide= we are saved alone by faith alone in Christ alone. Gal 2:16 and Eph 2:8-9

Show me that statement in Scripture. Because Scripture says:
James 2:24
King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Therefore that statement contradicts the Word of God.

Galatians 2:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

This does not say “faith IN Christ”. It says “faith OF Christ”. The faith of Christ is the Christianity. The rituals and doctrines which He established to be passed down by His Church.

Therefore, St. Paul is contrasting the Jewish faith and the Christian faith. We are not justified nor was anyone every justified by the Jewish faith. That is why, in another place, he says:
Hebrews 11:40
King James Version (KJV)
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

In other words, without us, they would not be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In order to understand this one fully, we need one more verse:
Ephesians 2:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith;
Faith is a grace.
Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace;….

and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
God gives us this grace. It is the first grace which God gives us because without faith we can’t please Him. And faith is a very special type of grace. It is a grace which must be exercised. Faith ALONE is dead (James 2:17).

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Therefore we can’t boast that we made ourselves faithful nor that we saved ourselves.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now, we are ALL created in Christ when we are conceived. Christ has created all that is in creation:
John 1:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

and we were all made to do good. We were all made to keep the Commandments.
Romans 2:14-16
King James Version (KJV)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

God gave this command from before time began. We were made for God. We were made to be righteous. This is why we are justified by DOING the faith OF Christ.

The Creeds are proofs against Sola Scriptura

The Creeds are concise expressions of all that Christians believe.  There are three Creeds which are called “ecumenical” because they express that which all Christians should believe and even the Reformed Christians accept these Creeds.

These three Creeds are the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed.  All three of these date to a time before the Bible was canonized.  Below, I’ve printed them out in their entirety, from a Protestant source.

The Apostles’ Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Did you notice something glaringly absent?

These Creeds contain all the things which a Christian must believe.    The first two, the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene, say, “I believe in the catholic Church”.  And the Athanasian says, “it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith”.   And then goes on to explain that which is the Catholic faith.

Not one of them says, “I believe that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith”.

So, none of the Creeds say that we need to believe that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith.  Add to that the fact that Scripture Itself says that the Church is the Pillar of Truth (1 Tim 3:15).  And that we should hold Tradition and Scripture (2 Thess 2:15).  And you’ve got a devastating argument against Sola Scriptura.

What do Protestants believe about Baptism?

Now, if it were true that Scripture was crystal clear and easy to understand, then they would be able to agree upon the nature of Baptism. But, in fact, Scripture is so unclear about the nature of Baptism, that Protestants have come up with several contradicting teachings on Baptism. And they base all of these teachings upon their own personal twist of the Bible alone. 
Read More...

Now, he's making the Old Testament the rule of faith

Back on the Berean article, the same guy is making the Old Testament the rule of faith and of higher authority than the New Testament.

I'm sure he's doing it unintentionally.  But it just goes to show how much (or how little) they understand what they are reading in Scripture.  Here's an excerpt of the discussion.

>>>Tradition, magisterium, and Scripture were all present,>>>

Which means that Scripture is not alone.

>>> but Scripture was alone as the most authoritative rule of faith and life.>>>

You do realize that the Bereans were searching in the Old Testament, right?  So, what you are saying is that the Old Testament is the most authoritative rule of faith and life?

>>>After all, the Bereans examined the tradition>>>

The "word".  They equated the "traditions" with the "word".  And they received it with all readiness.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They received the “word” of God.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 ye received the word of God which ye heard of us

>>> according to the standard of the Scripture. >>>

According to the Old Testament.

So, you’re arguing that the Old Testament is a more authoritative rule than the Word of God which the Bereans received from the Church.

Essentially, you're saying that the Old Testament is more authoritative than the New Testament, because the Apostles were teaching the New Testament Traditions of Jesus Christ before they were written down in Scripture.

You do realize this, right?

Bereans contra Sola Scriptura

Protestants frequently use the account of the Bereans, in the book of Acts, to justify Sola Scriptura (aka Scripture alone). But that claim doesn't bear up under scrutiny. 
Read More...

The three major objections to Scripture Alone which Protestants can't overcome

Scripture alone is the Protestant doctrine which says that Scripture is the sole rule of faith. It was originally known as Sola Scriptura. The word “sola” is the Latin word for “alone” and the word “scriptura” means “scripture”. In English it is called the doctrine of Scripture alone or sometimes, the Bible alone. 
Read More...

Socrates vs Sola Scriptura

One of the greatest arguments against Sola Scriptura was articulated by a pagan philosopher many centuries before the Protestant Revolution came along: 
Read More...

II Tim 3:16 and Sola Scriptura

Before I begin, I’d like to thank those who are participating in the comments on the article, “Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church as described in the New Testament”. This subject was brought up in those comments and let me explain something to you, the epistle known as the 2nd Letter of St. Paul to St. Timothy (2 Tim for short), has nothing to do with Sola Scriptura. Read more

The answer is, that Scripture doesn't. That is the role of the Church.

De Maria said...

Hi Dan,

you said,

Godismyjudge said...
De Maria,

I was being a bit informal about defining sola scriptura, but here's a more thorough definition:

I believe the Scriptures as originally given by God, both Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired Word of God, infallible, entirely trustworthy

That is Catholic Teaching.

, and the supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.

How do you mean? Let me give you an example. Say that a fellow reads Rom 6:1 and decides we should sin mightily that grace may abound the more. I have met some who believe this, so its not a far stretch of the imagination. How does Scripture stop them from misinterpreting the message they find in Scripture?

As a Catholic, I'm allowed to read the wise teachings of any man. Here's what a Pagan wrote about the written word before the time of Christ:

Socrates Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their sayings, they always say only one and the same thing.....

Therefore, the question remains, how does Holy Scripture explain itself to anyone who does not understand it?

The answer is, that it doesn't. That is the role of the Church. Jesus Christ established the Church to pass what He commanded and to explain that. That includes what has been written in the Scriptures.

Therefore I do not consider human writings, councils, decrees or official decisions as above or equal to Scripture, 

The Scriptures are human writings. They are human writings inspired by God. And we believe certain councils, decrees and official decisions are also inspired by God to remain free from error. God did not abandon us after He inspired the Holy Scriptures to be written. He is very much alive affecting our decisions and guiding us to this very day and forever.

but they must be examined and assessed based on Scripture.

That is partially Catholic Teaching. We compare everything to Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium.

The Scriptures clearly and completely reveal all things needed for salvation,

That contradicts Scripture itself 2 Peter 3:15-16.

such that whatever is not proven by Scriptures is not to be required of anyone as necessary for salvation.

Good point. Now, is Sola Scriptura necessary for salvation? If so, prove it to me from Scripture.

If not, why do Protestants make such a fuss about it that they endanger their salvation by rebelling against the Church for it?

I can't help but notice that the bulk of your response is predicated on the idea that the Church does not error in doctrine. But then you qualify that with Popes and councils in very specific circumstances. So most of the time, Popes and councils can error, right?

That is correct. Popes are infallible when they teach the Church from the chair of Peter. Councils are infallible when they are ecumenical, teaching in union with the Pope, the entire Church.

Let's take a practical example where the rubber hits the road.

Let's do it.

Could the Church be wrong in its teaching on contraception? 

No. But you probably thinks it can be wrong, so please elaborate.

Here are question for you. If you believe that Scripture is infallible and authoritative, is there a church in existence which you consider the "pillar of truth"? And which is it?

Thanks for the polite conversation. I will try to post more later.

Great!

In a follow up, you said:

Following up on your comments on Church authority, I do follow whatever my pastor says as far as running the church. 

That is not exactly being obedient to the Word of God. Here again, is what Scripture says:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Perhaps you notice how closely that resembles what Catholics do when they submit to the authority of the Priest in confession.

Note how that says that the ruler is responsible over your soul to the extent he must give an account. And there is no wishy washiness about when to obey. It simply says submit and obey.

Is there someone in your church to whom you submit whom you consider to be responsible for your soul?

But what he doesn't do is introduce new doctrines not taught in scripture. 

But, he advances the errors introduced by the Reformers. Those errors are not taught in Scripture and blatantly contradict Scripture.

Sola Scriptura for instance, teaches to hold Scripture alone. Yet Scripture says hold the Traditions (2 Thess 2:15).

If he did, I would be leary, but would hear him out and consider what he said. Of course, if he contradicted scripture, we are to obey God rather than men. 

He does contradict Scripture.

As for Luther, he had reason to doubt that those that were calling themselves "the Church" were in fact "the Church". The Medici popes were apostate.

In my opinion, anyone who doubts the Church, doubts Christ who built the Church:
Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

God be with you,
Dan 

And also with you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

Absolutely true. Scripture teaches against Sola Scriptura.

De Maria has left a new comment on the post "DID THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GIVE US THE BIBLE?":

Anonymous December 31, 2014 at 11:58 AMVATICAN ADMITS ITS HATRED TO THE WORD OF GOD
"The belief in the Bible as the sole source of faith is unhistorical, illogical, fatal to the virtue of faith, and destructive of unity." -The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIII, "Protestantism", Section III A - Sola Scriptura ("Bible Alone"), Nihil Obstat, February 1, 1912 by Remy Lafort, D.D., Censor, Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York. (online source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12495a.htm )

Absolutely true. Scripture teaches against Sola Scriptura.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

"Unfortunately many of these books were lost during the persecution of the 17th century, and only those books and ancient documents sent to the libraries of Cambridge and Geneva by Pastor Leger were perserved. The Papists took care, after every persecution, to destroy as much of the Waldensean literature as possible. ...A Short History of the Italian Waldenses

Non sequitur. If certain Catholics destroyed Waldensean liturature, so what? It is because the Catholic Church that you have the Bible which you have today.

Their refusal to surrender the scriptures was an offense that the Papacy could not tolerate. The Papacy was determined to exterminate the heretics from the face of the Earth..... ( Fox's Book Of Martyrs) ....

Fox's book of martyrs has been proved false. It is a mixture of lies, exaggerations with a bit of truth. As an example, the number of people which FBoM claimed that the Catholic Church killed did not exist upon the earth at that time.

cont'd

De Maria has left a new comment on the post "DID THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GIVE US THE BIBLE?":cont'd

"...A dead and speechless book." -Question Box, p. 67

All books are dead and speechless. Or do you claim that the Bible stands up and walks and talks to you?

(what about Hebrews 4:12 

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The Word of God is spoken by the Priests of the Catholic Church:
Hebrews 13:7King James Version (KJV)

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

and 2 Timothy 3:16-17?)

The entire book of 2 Tim is about teaching the Word of God. 2 Tim 3:16-17 briefly mentions that the Bible can be used to supplement the teaching of the priest. But does not require it.

"The simple fact is that the Bible, like all dead letters, calls for a living interpreter." -The Faith of Millions, p. 155

Absolutely! Heretics have misinterpreted the Bible throughout history. And the Bible did not object. It was the Church which fought the heretics and defeated them.

(what about 1 John 2:27?)

1 John 2:27King James Version (KJV)

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1. That says nothing about Scripture.
2. Its actually about the anointing we receive in Confirmation, wherein, the Holy Spirit confers upon us the light of grace:

1303 From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace:
- it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, "Abba! Father!";117
- it unites us more firmly to Christ;
- it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
- it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;118
- it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:119

Recall then that you have received the spiritual seal, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence, the spirit of holy fear in God's presence. Guard what you have received. God the Father has marked you with his sign; Christ the Lord has confirmed you and has placed his pledge, the Spirit, in your hearts.

 

Traditions once delivered and taught by the apostles

Lutero:
Which traditions? Traditions once delivered and taught by the apostles,

Yes.

or those invented by the RCC?

It is Protestants who have invented traditions like Scripture alone and faith alone.

You've yet to provide the inspired traditions taught by the apostles.

I've provided them over and over, but you simply deny what I say. Lets take the Tradition of the Faith of Christ. 

The Apostles taught us to have faith in Christ.
The Church teaches us to have faith in Christ in accordance with the Tradition of the Faith of Christ. This is handed down generation to generation and it doesn't matter if we have a Bible in our hand when we do it.
Of course, we demonstrate the Faith of Christ in our rituals and celebrations as well as in our behavior (i.e.let your light shine before men).
The Scriptures also proclaim the Faith of Christ.

Care to dispute this?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Rewind: Disagreement among Protestants

Originally published: Wednesday, September 21, 2011

JUST FOR my fellow CATHOLICS - Disagreement among Protestants

Just for Catholics is a website where Dr. Mizzi seeks to convince Catholics to leave the Catholic Church.  I am reviewing his teachings and comparing them to the Word of God in Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium.  We are currently on this article.  His words in blue.

Disagreement Among Protestants and Sola Scriptura

Question: How can all these denominations claim to follow the bible yet all come to different conclusions? How can I possibly know which one of those above teach the truth when they can't even agree on what the Bible says? Protestants believe a variety of doctrines and all claim to take their doctrines from the Bible. That doesn't really sound like perspicuity to me. 'Bible alone' has created so much havoc in this world.

Those are very good questions:  

First, God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33).  Therefore, the Holy Spirit can't possibly have inspired so many contradicting interpretations of Scripture.

Second, the Holy Scriptures themselves say:

Romans 16:17

King James Version (KJV)

 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Yet Protestants, because of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, constantly cause divisions, in contradiction to the Word of God.  

Indeed, Sola Scriptura has wreaked havoc on Christ's Church:

Matthew 7:16

King James Version (KJV)

 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The fruit of Sola Scriptura is continual division and confusion.

Answer: You rashly attribute the differences of opinions among Christians to 'Sola Sciptura' - namely, the Protestant belief that the Holy Scripture is the only infallible rule of Christian doctrine.  The fault is not in the Scripture but in the human heart. 

No one said the fault was in Scripture.  The main fault is in the false doctrine which contradicts the Word of God.  Sola Scriptura, which bolsters man's sinful pride and gives him license to disobey the Authority which God placed over him in this world.

Hebrews 13:17

King James Version (KJV)

 17Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. 

We need to distinguish between two basic facts. Firstly, the Bible is perspicuous (clear, understandable) - it is not some mysterious book that cannot be understood by common ordinary Christians. 

The Bible ITSELF, says that there are some things within it which are hard to understand:

2 Peter 3:16

King James Version (KJV)

 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Otherwise why would the apostles address their epistles to them rather than the magisterium? 

The Apostles were the Magisterium of their day.  Their epistles were merely teaching tools, reiterating what they had previously passed down by word:

1 Thessalonians 2:13

King James Version (KJV)

 13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Secondly, the human nature is such that people can misunderstand even the simplest of matters. 

Precisely!  Which confirms the necessity of a Magisterium.  And explains why Jesus established a Church and commanded it to teach His Traditions:

Matthew 28:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

And neither commanded He any writing, nor Himself wrote anything.

This is true of Christians -- even the apostles were hard to understand! -- and it is even more so in the case of unregenerate people whose hearts are darkened.

You're not helping your case.  This is precisely the reason why God established a system whereby doctrines are confirmed by Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium.

So, it is unfair to say that since Christians have disagreements between themselves, and since they study the same Bible, the Bible is not clear. The problem is not with the Bible but with us.

The problem is with the doctrine that gives people license to interpret Scripture against the authoritative Teaching of the Church.

Matthew 18:17

King James Version (KJV)

 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

The apparent unity of the Roman Catholic Church is illusory, as any informed Catholic would know. The unity is structural and organizational, 

That is more than we can say for Protestants.  But the Catholic Church has much more unity than that.  We all partake of one Loaf, because we are one Body in Christ.

but there are serious divisions at all levels, especially between the more liberal and conservative Catholics. Take the charismatic movement for an example. In Protestant circles, Charismatics form separate denominations (and so the distinction from other denominations is obvious). Whereas in the Catholic church, the charismatic groups remain under the Roman umbrella. Their differences from non-charismatic Catholics are hidden though they are just as real as in Protestant churches.

Conservatives and Charismatics are different in their style of worship. But they submit to and obey the Pope and the Bishops of the Catholic Church united with him.

And the Catholic umbrella is big enough to accept their differences.

So, what is the cause of the differences among Christians?

Amongst Protestants?  It is doctrine.  That which they interpret separately from the Scriptures alone.

First of all, Christians are disciples (students); we are still learning and we have not yet arrived to a full and mature understanding of the Scriptures (see Ephesians 4:13). Therefore one expects to find differences among God's children. 

Interesting.  Is Dr. Mizzi admitting that Protestants don't understand their faith?  Lets look at Ephesians 4:13 and see if it suggests that we all attend separate denominations which contradict each other.  I'll get a bit more of the ontext though:

Ephesians 4

 1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

St. Paul says that we should walk in holiness, because that is our vocation.

 2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Hm?  Keep the unity of the Spirit?  Sounds as though St. Paul doesn't want disunity.  And disunity is the emblem of the Protestants.

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One Body!  One Spirit!  One hope!  One Lord!  One FAITH! One Baptism!

Sorry folks.  But is Dr. Mizzi trying to hoodwink us?  This entire chapter seems to be about the unity of faith.  Not about excuses for being disloyal.

 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 is not about excusing new Christians which want to follow other denominations.  But about perfecting the new Christian in the unity of faith.  

But don't stop at that verse.  Read on:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

This verse, above all, describes Protestants.  They are tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.  But the Catholic Church learned long ago the wisdom of Christ.  

Matthew 13:45-46

King James Version (KJV)

 45Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
 46Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

We hold on to that Pearl.

Secondly, Christians are not immune to error or the the deceptions introduced by false teachers. The apostle Paul had to correct the believers in Corinth, Galatia and Colosse for various errors. It is not any different today.

Precisely why we need an infallible Teacher.  In this case, the Apostle Paul, representing the Church, was that infallible Teacher.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the sin remaining in the Christian heart opposes the plain teaching of God's Word. Sometimes we find it hard to accept the teaching of the Bible because of practical implications we don't like or simply because it humiliates our natural pride. Many people did not receive the words of Jesus because of fear of the Jewish leaders and social isolation. Sometimes we do not receive the teaching of the Bible, not because we don't understand it, but because we are not willing to do so. There are differences because our beliefs and practices are not always consistent with our basic presupposition, namely, Sola Scriptura. We assert that the Bible is our only infallible rule of faith, and yet we sometimes misunderstand the Bible, or add, or take away, from the teaching of Scripture.

Exactly why God provided an infallible Teacher with the authority to teach all that He commanded throughout the world.

There is an analogous problem in the Roman Catholic Church. We find a similar constellation of opinions on any subject among the Catholic faithful, despite their 'infallible' magisterium and their rejection of sola Scriptura. For example, in a nationwide survey of fifteen hundred American Catholics,

The survey found significant gaps between individual values and the Roman Catholic Church's structure and teachings. When asked to make a moral decision on several issues, 50% said in vitro fertilization procedures are not wrong, and 61% would not condemn artificial birth control. The church opposes both.

I broke in here merely to highlight those last four words.  THE CHURCH OPPOSES BOTH.  In other words, all who hold sinful opinions and beliefs, do so in spite of Catholic Teaching.  Lets continue.

Although the church also opposes the death penalty, Catholics were evenly split on the issue. However, 61% agreed with their church's stand against stem-cell research that 'entails destruction of human embryos'; 68% agreed, 'that abortion is morally wrong under virtually all circumstances';

Note how the Church always opposes sin.

and 61% said 'homosexual behavior' is wrong.

In agreement with the Church.  Homosexual behavior is a sin.

Nonetheless, 83% said it is wrong 'to discriminate against homosexuals.

What does that mean exactly?  The Church teaches us to treat everyone with respect.  Including sinners of all types.

Most would let priests marry (54%), allow women to be ordained (53%), give the laity more leadership roles (72%) and make the church more democratic in its decision-making (62%) (Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY 11/16/2001).

Certainly, there are many different opinions amongst Catholics.  But the Pope and the Bishops united with him, the Magisterium, is guided by the Holy Spirit.  Not by popular vote.

The problem is not limited to the laity. 

I'm glad that he calls it a problem.  Because it is.  Protestants like to say that they have the freedom to believe what they want.  But as you can see, Dr. Mizzi classifies that, as a problem.

There are serious differences of opinion among priests and theologians. For example, a Catholic lady wrote to me saying, 'I just visited your website, and couldn't believe that you would quote Richard McBrien as your source for a Catholic theologian. He is well known to be a dissenter.' When I asked whether he is censored or excommunicated, she replied, 'As far as him being excommunicated, right now, if every priest who dissented from Church teaching was ex-communicated, I guess it would be the majority, especially the older ones.' Another Catholic lady was frank enough to admit: 'Among Catholic theologians right now they are trying to interpret the meaning of the Vatican II documents. People who were there have disagreements on what Vatican II said!'

This is really funny.  Dr. Mizzi wants us to take the word of two, anonymous, purportedly Catholic women?  And of course, they KNOW what is going on in the Vatican and throughout the world.  

As for disagreements amongst people who were at the Vatican II conference.  Yes, its true.  But they were resolved.  The Catholic motto is, "Rome has spoken, it is done".

Evangelicals consider the Bible as their highest authority while Catholics submit to the magisterium. 

Not really.  Yes, Catholics submit to the Magisterium.  But Evangelicals, although they claim that the Bible is their highest authority, that is really a sleight of hand.

The Bible doesn't interpret Itself.  People interpret It.  As Dr. Mizzi noted above, people are not perfect.  They "oppose... the plain teaching of God's Word. Sometimes ... find it hard to accept the teaching of the Bible because of practical implications we don't like or simply because it humiliates our natural pride.

What happens then?  When imperfect people interpret the Scriptures?  Dr. Mizzi has said it.  They follow their own contradictory predispositions.

This is why infallible Tradition and an infallible Magisterium are necessary.  So that the interpretations of sinful and imperfect humans can be tested against the Traditions of the Apostles and the Teachings of the Church from the beginning.  And we can distinguish truth from error.

In theory there is a unifying principle in both camps. In practice, we find an assortment of opinions and beliefs within both groups.

Nope.  You find an assortment of opinions.  But not of beliefs.  
1.  Every time they attend Mass, Catholics proclaim their faith.  It is called the Nicene Creed.
2.  Catholics submit to and obey the Pope and the Magisterium.
3.  The Pope and the Magisterium are united today and have been from the beginning.

Protestants on the other hand, don't need to believe any human.  If they disagree with their leaders, they simply take their Bible to another church.  The leaders of one Protestant denomination believe one thing, while others believe another.  There is no unity in Protestantism.

You might respond that the disagreements and discord among Catholics is not the fault of the Catholic authority 

You read my mind.

since the teaching of the magisterium is plain enough. 

Correct.

You might add that there is a need to teach Catholics more clearly to correct their misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine. 

Not me.  I'm of the opinion that some Catholics need to seek to learn Catholic doctrine.  While others merely need to learn to submit to and obey the Magisterium.  I am quite satisfied with the amount of learning offered to Catholics.  Most Parishes offer many programs from the most basic to college and seminary level.

You might also say that some Catholics are willingly disobedient to the teaching of the Church. 

It is evident in their words and actions.

In principle, the same is true for evangelical Christians. The doctrinal differences among Christians are not due to our authority (the Bible) but due to the limitations and sinfulness of the human heart.

With one major difference.  Because of Original Sin and concupiscence, Protestants will continue to seek to justify their beliefs which contradict the Word of God.

But Catholics have an infallible Teacher.  With infallible Doctrines.  Those Catholics who seek to justify their beliefs which contradict the Word of God, will come up against the wall of Truth, erected by Christ in His Church.  Because the Church doesn't change the Word of God.  You either believe God, who now speaks through His Church or you face the consequences.

Luke 10:16

King James Version (KJV)

 16He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Sincerely,

De Maria