St. Paul said faith and works

Paul did not say faith AND WORKS, he said FAITH, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9). This is NOT the kind of faith that remains "alone" in producing good works which demonstrates that it's dead, and James condemns. This is the kind of faith that TRUSTS IN CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION. This person is MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS. The good works are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. Once again, Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet faith, if it is true, will be substantiated and confirmed by good works. Your church has this OUT OF BALANCE. So how many good works must you accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you? See why you have no assurance of salvation? It's because you are trusting in works for salvation and don't know for sure if they measure up or not.

St. Paul did not say faith ALONE. He said, "doers are justified."

He washes away my sins. I don't literally get it in a sacrament. I certainly don't kill Him again.

We get it exactly as He says. In the Sacrament of the Eucharist.

I'm not talking about His glory. We will never be God. The righteousness of God imputed to us (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:1-21) does not imply we take His glory. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ (Galatians 3:27). For by ONE SPIRIT we have all been baptized into ONE BODY (1 Corinthians 12:13). Not to be confused with water baptism.

If you want to walk amongst the Saints in this life, you will be water Baptized, calling on the name of Christ, and He will wash away your sins.

More evidence you trust in works salvation. This says the books (plural) were opened and (another) book (singular) was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books (plural). Their works are not judged to determine if they performed well enough to earn their salvation. For the lost dead, they are judged according to their works to determine their condemnation in the lake of fire. For some it will be greater than others. For believers, they are judged by their works to determine rewards and loss of rewards in heaven (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

It doesn't say anything about a believers book. Many who say to Christ, Lord, Lord, are in the other book. Many who claim faith ALONE, are in the other book. Many who have been baptized, are in the other book. Many who have received the Sacraments, are in the other book. It is those who have DONE THE WILL OF GOD who are in the book of life. Some who have never known the Gospel or the Old Covenant, but have been faithful to the Law written in their hearts, are in the book of life. Most of all, those who have obeyed Christ and kept His Commands and accepted His Sacraments, they are in the book of life. God knows who they are. We don't.

Christ rose again on the third day. He told the thief on the cross that this day you will be with me in paradise and mentioned absolutely nothing about purgatory. The dogma of purgatory absolutely denies the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for sin on the cross and is a detestable doctrine.

You have no understanding of the doctrine. You have given the definition of it as the determination of our reward. All who are in Purgatory will be saved on the Last Day. You believe in Purgatory and don't even know it.

So his suffering in the flesh caused him to become sinless and bypass purgatory? Yeah right. Sinful desires seem insignificant when one's life is in jeopardy. Suffering for Christ advances the progress of sanctification. This verse has nothing to do with purgatory.

On the contrary, you just don't understand it. But you already explained it and then turned around and denied it.

This verse has nothing to do with purgatory either.

It has to do with the works which the Thief accomplished from the Cross. You didn't even realize it, did you?

Maybe so, which caused him to grow to be more mature in Christ faster, but it was still the blood of Christ that washed away his sins. There were no further sins to suffer for in purgatory. Christ's atonement for sin on the cross is ALLSUFFICIENT. No purgatory necessary. Thank God I have been set free in Christ, know the truth and don't have to live in bondage to such false teachings.

Was the Thief not also suffering? He was CRUCIFIED.

Please continue to prayerfully consider the truth and God bless

You too. I have enjoyed our discussion and I thank you for taking the time to talk to me. It is rare that I get the opportunity to go into detail in matters of Scripture.

May God bless you and yours,

Sincerely,

De Maria

Sacred Tradition is the Word of God

Anonymous said...

So it appears you don't know of any tradition that the apostles considered inspired-inerrant outside of the Scriptures. Would that be correct?

If I'm wrong, please show me an example of a tradition that the apostles considered inspired-inerrant.

Confession. The Tradition that the Church ministers to and absolves repentant sinners:

John 20:

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Now you. Show us why we should believe in and practice Sola Scriptura, when you have admitted it is not in Scripture and you stated that anything which is not in Scripture is not binding.

Sincerely,

De Maria

The doctrine of Scripture alone invalidates itself

Anonymous said...
Scripture does not need to say "there would be a time when it would be the sole infallible authority."

Anonymous also said:
Any teaching that contradicts Scripture or that Scripture does not address is not binding. 

Therefore, since Scripture does not say, "there would be a time when it would be the sole infallible authority", this doctrine is not binding. It is a false doctrine of men.

This does not in the least change the idea that the Scripture alone is inspired-inerrant Word of God.

Again, produce the teaching from Scripture or by your own rule, it is invalid.

It follows from the necessity of the case that something that is inspired-inerrant by definition is the highest authority in the church. This is based on the nature of the Scripture itself. 

Scripture says that the highest authority is God. And Scripture says that God established the Church as authority over men in this life.

Did the apostles consider anything else to be inspired-inerrant Word of God?

God, the Church and His Traditions.

Sola Scriptura is not mentioned in Scripture

Anonymous said...

I would agree there is no definition of Sola Scriptura in Scripture.

Nor is Sola Scriptura mentioned in Scripture. And the fact that Sola Scriptura is absent from Scripture tells us that Sola Scriptura is a doctrine of men. In fact, Sola Scriptura contradicts Scripture which tells us to keep Tradition (2 Thess 2:15).

What we do know about Scripture is that it alone is inspired-inerrant. It alone is the Word of God. 

Chapter and verse please.

What I see is Scripture says that Scripture is inspired (2 Tim 3:16). But it is the Church which tells you which books are Scripture and teaches that Scripture is without error.

Scripture also teaches that men are inspired of the Holy Spirit to speak and then to write the Scripture (2 Pet 19-21).

I also see that Scripture tells me that the Church teaches the Wisdom of God. I suppose that the Wisdom of God is also inspired-inerrant, wouldn't you agree?

I see no verse saying that Scripture ALONE is inspired-inerrant. So, please produce the chapter and verse.

What follows from this is that there is no higher or equal authority to the Scripture.

God is the highest authority in all matters. Scripture has no authority except as a rule upon which men can meditate to learn the Will of God. But the Church has been authorized to teach the Wisdom of God and to rule over men (Matt 28:19-20). And even to forgive their sins (John 20:22-23).

That is why its teachings are binding. Any teaching that contradicts Scripture or that Scripture does not address is not binding. 

You admitted in your first sentence that Scripture does not address the doctrine of Scripture alone. Therefore, by your own admission, Scripture alone is a false doctrine.

Eating meat on Friday during lent is an example of a teaching-practice that is not apostolic and thereby not binding. 

Abstinence from meat on Fridays is a Church discipline. And, as I have shown, Jesus Christ gave the Church authority over His disciples. Anyone who does not obey the Church is treated as a heathen (Matt 18:17).

Other doctrines of your church such as the Marian dogmas would be not binding nor apostolic.

Marian doctrines are in Scripture either explicit or implied. Sola Scriptura is totally absent from Scripture and contradicts the Word of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

De Maria March 4, 2013 at 11:00 PM

malbert February 18, 2011 at 6:26 AM
...i am malbert from goa can you please tell me how can u say that the bible belongs to us…where it is given in the bible…thanks.

I’m not sure if these will answer your question:
2 Pet 1:
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Sacred Tradition is the Word of God.

Anti-Catholic says:
I have yet to meet a RC that knows the Bible well.

Without meaning any disrespect. I don’t know any Protestant who understands the Bible, not even your best scholars. True, you guys repeat the words well enough. But you don’t know the true meaning of the words. And that’s the ones you know.

For the most part, you go by the extra-biblical traditions taught you by your church. I’ll give you an example:

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Most Protestants don’t even know that verse is in Scripture. Those who have read, disregard it. Here’s the Protestant doctrine, “I won’t check my brain at the door! I’m a free thinker.”

And here’s the kicker. Most Catholics know the Word of God better than most Protestants.  A devout Catholic, on the street, understands the Word of God better than Billy Graham or any other of your high and mighty televangelists or preachers.  You see, the Word of God does not come in the Bible alone.  It is passed down in the Sacred Traditions of Jesus Christ, which you have abandoned.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Fielding more anti-Catholic objections

Queen of Heaven

Anti-Catholic said: 

Good thing I'm not in that religious cult where free thinking is prohibited. It's based in Rome, heard of it?  

Again, I thank you for providing this statement.  It makes it very simple to compare your teachings to Scripture and Catholic Doctrine to Scripture.

So, is so called "free thinking" approved of in Scripture?  Let us see what Scripture says:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Not in that verse.  No.


Hebrews 13:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Not in that verse, either.


1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Nor in that verse.


Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.


Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


Not there either.  Can you provide any verse which supports or promotes "free thinking"?

Please ignore everything I say -

I'm doing my best.

but you can't ignore the Bible.

We know.  We follow the Teaching of Scripture diligently.  It is the Teaching of the Church.  The Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Old and then bound them together in one Holy Book.

Is that arrogance? You'd only think so if you mistook what I said for what the Bible said. If you make that mistake, shame on you, not me. 

Its not we who mistake what you say for what the Bible actually says.  It is you confounding the two.

The Bible says sorcery and enchantment really exist (eg, Ex 7:11, Acts 8:9, Isaiah 47:12, Prov 6:13) -

That is Catholic Teaching.  That is why we have Exorcists.

whether Jack Van Impe ("imp" means a devil) uses it is pure speculation.

I have no idea who this guy is nor what you guys are talking about.  Carry on.  No comment on my part.

Also, the Bible has a rapture (Rev 14:14-16; Matthew 25:1) and a rapture (2 Thess 2:6-7; 1 Cor 15:52)- if you can reconcile them some other way than one post-trib and other pre-trib, then go ahead.

Only the Father knows.  I'll leave it to Him to reveal it in His good time.

And if you can explain the mystery of James the son of Alphaeus who is Christ's brother - without changing the text - then go ahead.

Easily.  The word "adelphos" is used to mean "close or intimate friend" as in the following:

Mat 23:8 But 1161 be 2564 0 not 3361 ye 5210 called 2564 Rabbi 4461: for 1063 one 1520 is 2076 your 5216 Master 2519, [even] Christ 5547; and 1161 all 3956 ye 5210 are 2075 brethren 80.

All of the Apostles are brethren according to Christ.

Strong's G80 - adelphos
ἀδελφός
Transliteration
adelphos

The word used there is adelphos. 

Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

This disproves the Protestant teaching that adelphos must always be a "brother of the womb".

Ignore me every time -

Still doing my best.

but the Bible says what it says. 

Yeah.  And the Bible continually supports Catholic doctrine because it is based upon Catholic Teaching.

Why do you concern yourself so much with Mary while avoiding a Bible-based study of her?

Hm?  It is you who concern yourself with denying the Bible based doctrines concerning the Mother of Our Lord.

Isn't that rather ridiculous?  

Your position is, yes.

We can thank Reformers for any Bible doctrine that stamps out men's traditions -

No.  It is precisely the opposite.  The Reformers confounded the teaching of Scripture and have led many people astray, including you.

including the reformers' traditions.

Any of their traditions which contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church  also contradict Scripture.

Traditions are fine unless the Bible says otherwise.

Exactly!  Let me give you a clear example.  Protestants say "justified by faith alone."  Scripture says:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Why should snake handling cults shock people more than Roman Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves??  

Why should Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves shock people more than snake handling Christians?

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 9:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Pet 4:1
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Let the Pope sit in this special little seat and acknowledge the supremacy of the King James Bible over everything - then we will have something worthwhile to unify around.  

The King James Bible is a translation based in part upon St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate.  It is St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate which is the best translation of the originals that ever existed.

That sordid bigot Leo X attacked Martin Luther and cut his church off from the work of God - which continued elsewhere.

It is the other way around.  Martin Luther cut himself off from the work of God when he revolted against the Church.

Romanism went on to enacted the ludicrous "anathemas" in the Council of Trent - cutting itself off completely from Bible Christianity.

Still more error on your part.  The Catholic Church did precisely what She was supposed to do when She condemned the heinous errors of the Protestants.

Luther wrote to the German princes that in view of Rome's manifest failure to lead the flock of God, it was necessary that fellow Christians - who are all priests - appoint their own bishops. He was exactly right - 2 Tim 2:2. 

He was wrong.  He innovated and changed the Word of God.  Thereby disobeying the verse you have provided in support of his heinous behavior:
2 Timothy 2:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

This is the support for Apostolic Succession.  He flagrantly also violated this Scripture:
Hebrews 13:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Of course, "pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15) isn't a sarcastic title when applied to saved believers under Christ's head - but it is when applied to Romanism under the pope's head.

On the contrary, it is a perfect description of the Catholic Church.  The term "saved believers" when applied to Protestants is irony in its purest form.  It is they who deny the Fountains of God's grace which are the Sacraments.  The only vessels by which they can be saved in this life.

In that very chapter, 1 Timothy 3, Paul says Bishops should be married.

And in another verse he says that in order to better serve the Lord a man should remain unmarried:
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

Which verse carries the greater force in your opinion?

So please forgive me if I involuntarily snicker when somebody calls Rome the "pillar and ground of the truth." 

It is God whose forgiveness you should seek for belittling the Church which His Son sacrificed Himself to build:
Ephesians 5:
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.  25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

You aren't aware of the "co-redemptrix" lobby? Once they get their way you will then have ample opportunity to "explain" how this didn't deify Mary, like you explain so many other "consistencies" from 313 AD until the present.  

Mary is co-redemptrix.  It is a simple title which acknowledges that we are all fellow laborers with God and she chief among us because she brought Christ into the world:
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Remember your loyalty must be first and foremost to holy scripture.

First and foremost to God and His Word which is taught us in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture by the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

If you think God doesn't allow his people to be tested by a corrupt religious leadership run by the devil, then you need to re-read the lessons taught in the Old Testament. 

I believe it.  It is you being tested by the corrupt leadership which you follow and which has mainlined the sins of adultery (Matthew 5:32), abortion (abortifacent contraception), homosexuality (permits homosexual ministers and has written homosexual versions of Scripture), etc. etc.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Scripture alone, a tradition of men

Scripture says:

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, 

A tradition of men, such as the one mentioned in Scripture, would be the doctrine of Scripture alone, which gives all individuals the right to interpret Scripture any way they want. Thus, invalidating the God given rule that one must obey those He has put in charge of our souls, in the Church.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Those who follow the erroneous doctrine of Scripture alone, replace God's authority with their own and make Scripture say what they want it to say, rather than what God wills. Therefore, they claim that attending the Mass is unnecessary. Whereas, Scripture says that missing the Mass intentionally makes one God's enemy:

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And that is just one of the traditions of men, or should I call them, errors of men, that Protestants follow and whereby they replace God's Commandment with their tradition.

God has given Protestants a sign

Numbers said:

What's wrong with that? God has not left His children in confusion, they study His Holy Canon of 66 books and come to conclusions, in other words, they get off the fence. 

The Holy Canon is of 73 books.

Note the following, because God is giving you a spiritual sign that your canon is incomplete. 6 is the mystical number of imperfection and evil. That is why 666 is the number of the Beast. Therefore God is telling you that your 66 book Bible is imperfect and incomplete.

7 is the number of perfection and covenant.

3 is the number of eternity and represents God.

Therefore God is telling the world that the 73 book Bible contains His covenant with mankind.

As they study their discernment increases, they are then able to see the lies all around them. 

That is true. Now, let's see where the lies are found. Protestants preach that we need to divest ourselves of Tradition. What does Scripture say:

2 Thessalonians 2:15

King James Version (KJV)

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Protestants teach that we are justified by faith alone:

James 2:24

King James Version (KJV)

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Protestants teach that we are not to follow men:

1 Corinthians 11:1

King James Version (KJV)

1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Protestants teach people to rebel against the Church:

Matthew 18:17

King James Version (KJV)

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Sounds as though it is Protestants who are uttering profane and vain babblings.

Tit 1:7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 

Absolutely.

Protestants broke away from the Church which Jesus Christ established. Yet Scripture denounces all who set aside the authority of the Church and claim to have their own authority apart from the Church:

1 John 2:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Sincerely,

De Maria

No, Jim, that's not what the Scripture means.

Kevin and Jim were debating Purgatory. I suppose Jim thought these verses somehow argue against the existence of Purgatory, but they have nothing to do with the subject matter. None of these verses say that all faithful men will go directly to heaven. 
Read More...

The Word of God subsists in man

God didn’t send His Word into a book. He sent it into the world. The souls of His elect embraced it and turned to Him so they might live. 
Read More...

Where do we find the Immaculate Conception in Scripture?

On this, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, I thought it might be appropriate to say a few words about this wonderful gift which God gave to the woman who would become His Mother. 
Read More...

Where do Catholics learn about the Word of God?

Catholics approach the Word of God (that includes the Bible) in a manner fundamentally different than Protestants. We approach the Word of God in the manner which Scripture recommends. 
Read More...

Catholic vs Protestant paradigms - How we read Scripture

The Catholic Church teaches us to understand Scripture according to the Sacred Deposit, the Sacred Traditions, which Jesus established. Why? Because, Jesus Christ established a Church and commanded that Church to teach what He commanded. (Matt 28:19-20). As a result, the Catholic Church went about teaching orally. 

Read More...

Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and it is described in Scripture

First off, I want to thank all who participated in the “Does the Bible say that missing the Mass is a mortal sin?” thread.

One of the things which was brought up by one of the Protestants in that thread is this idea that St. Constantine started the Catholic Church. But, is that true? Why do Protestants make this claim?

The short answer, “I don’t know.” The claim is patently false...(Read More).

How do I prove the Assumption from Scripture?

A few years ago, I was asked,

Is there a way to prove the Assumption of Mary other than saying "the Church says so" to a Protestant?

Lets try this:


1. We know assumption into heaven is possible because Enoch, Elijah and Moses were assumed into heaven according to the Bible:

Genesis 5:24And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 

Jude 1:9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

2. And we also know that assumption into heaven is possible because we are awaiting what Protestants call the Rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

3. And we also know that assumption into heaven is possible because St. Paul went to heaven and came back again:

2 Corinthians 12:2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

4. And presumably, the dead who rose when Jesus died on the Cross were also caught into heaven since there is no record they were returned to their graves:

Matthew 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

5. And Jesus said that some would not taste death:

Matthew 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

6.   The Bible does not say that Mary was not assumed into heaven. 

7.  But the Bible does show a Woman, clothed with the Sun, the Mother of Jesus Christ,  seen in Heaven:

Revelation 12:1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

8.  This Woman is Mary because only Mary is the mother Jesus.

So, our belief squares with Scripture perfectly. We have plenty of Biblical reasons to believe that the Mother of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was assumed into heaven:

CCC #966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.

What do you think?

We need the Church's infallible interpretation

LG
The arrogance of RCC posters here is a norm. They say that Scripture cant be understood and that it's not enough.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Scripture itself says that it can be misunderstood. Have you not read in Scripture:

2 Peter 3:16
King James Version (KJV)¹⁶ As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Scripture also says that one needs to be guided in learning Scripture:

Acts 8:30-35
King James Version (KJV)³⁰ And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?³¹ And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.³² The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:³³ In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.³⁴ And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?³⁵ Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Scripture also says that Scripture is not enough to persuade some about the truth of Jesus Christ:

Acts 17

King James Version (KJV)1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:² And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,³ Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.⁴ And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.⁵ But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people. 

 St. Paul reasoned with them from the Scripture, some believed, but some did not. Obviously, Scripture is not always enough.


Sincerely,

​De Maria

I'm not SS!

Calvin:
So are you SS?

No. You are. I accept the value of Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium. You deny the value of Tradition and Magisterium and live by your personal interpretations of Scripture alone (i.e. SS).

Sincerely,

De Maria

Yes, they did!

Luther:
No, they didn't.

Yes, they did.

Idiocy...there was no Tradition or Magesterium.

Yes, there was. 

Magisterium simply means an authoritative teacher. In this case, the Church represented by Sts. Paul and Silas.

And Tradition, St. Paul confirms that he taught the Thessalonians Tradition:

2 Thessalonians 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁵ Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Protestants need to convert, 2nd response to PBJ

My 2nd response to PBJ on Catholicism

De Maria  Peace By JESUS • a minute ago

Which is also a superficial non-answer to the basis for assurance of Truth,

According to you. But I can ask you the same question. What is the basis for your assurance of Truth?

as it ignores the problem of how you know that what Rome calls the word of God is just that.

No it doesn't. You didn't ask that question, therefore I answered what was asked.

The reason I know that what the Catholic Church calls the Word of God is the Word of God is manifold.

1. The witness of the Church Fathers, through the centuries

2. The witness of the Liturgies of the Church, through the centuries.

3. The witness of documents of the Church, through the centuries.

4. The witness of secular history.

Notice that I am not even including the witness of Scripture and Sacred Tradition because they are both the Word of God. However, they both witness, one for the other. And the Magisterium of the Church, witnesses for both.

To be consistent you must mean your basis for Truth is based upon the premise of the assured veracity of Rome, as an assuredly infallible magisterium is essential to know what the word of God is

I never denied that I believe the Catholic Church is infallible. But that is not my only reason that I believe that Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up the Word of God passed down by Jesus Christ through the Church. And you didn't ask that question either.

Thus to be consistent 1st. c. souls could not have know what men and writings were of God except by looking to the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation, which Scripture tells us were those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation. (Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34)

That was the Old Testament. But Jesus came along, established the Catholic Church, commanded the Catholic Church to Teach His commands through all generations and fulfilled the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church then wrote the New Testament based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ.

But instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected,

Whom the Jews rejected. Let's be clear on that point. The magisterium of the Jews rejected Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ established a new Magisterium.

and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Jesus Christ did not place the Scriptures above His Word:

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus Christ established His Traditions and commanded the Church to Teach (Matt 28:19-20). He never mentioned putting anything in writing nor handing out Bibles.

Thus under your basis for assurance of Truth, and its presuppositions, De Maria has nuked the NT church and replaced it with a false one.

On the contrary, the Catholic Church is the one which Jesus Christ established and this is proven by Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, secular history, the writings of the Fathers and more.

True, but what the apostles preached was not established as being of God on the Roman basis of assured veracity, but upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, "not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. (2 Corinthians 4:2)

But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,..By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, (2 Corinthians 6:4,7)

That is a false dichotomy since the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament. That verse which you are quoting was written by a Catholic. And here's how I'll prove it. You believe the Catholic Doctrine that men are mediators of God's word to be a blasphemous teaching. You also deny that any man can represent God. But 2 Corinthians was written by a Catholic who has no such objections:

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Likewise those who sat in the seat of Moses, thus to be consistent, 1st. c. souls should have submitted to themas to Rome under your model. But while we both affirm the magisterial office, never did that mean perpetual magisterial infallibility.

So you say, but I follow the Scripture:

Ephesians 3:10 to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

If the Church is teaching the wisdom of God in eternity, then that speaks of perpetual magisterial infallibility. Eternal-perpetual, Teaching-magisterial, Wisdom of God-infallible.

And under which presumption her claim not to contradict Scripture is spurious, as that is according to her autocratic judgment.

Again, that is your biased judgement. But the Scripture tells us plainly that the Church upholds the Truth (1 Tim 3:15) and that we learn the Word of God from our rulers in the Church (Heb 13:7).

But this presumes the magisterium is infallible, which is a novelty unknown and unnecessary in Scripture. Instead, while rebellion against magisterial authority could even mean death, (Dt. 17:8-13) God often provided and preserved Truth by raising up men from without the magisterium. And thus the church also began and has been preserved.

Jesus Christ introduced many New things in the New Testament. In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit leads Christ's Church into all truth:

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Therefore, the Catholic Church is infallible.

Rather, what you do represent is not Scriptural Teaching. Until you can admit that wha you affirms is wrong, that an infallible magisterium is NOT essential for valid assurance of Truth and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and 
preservation of faith;

It is you who are wrong. Scripture is clear that Jesus Christ established an infallible Church.

And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) does NOT means that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium,

Yes, it does.

 and instead concur that the church began by establishing its Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power,

Scripture itself records that this is not true. The New Testament shows Jesus establishing a Church and commanding that Church to pass on His Teaching. He didn't write a word of Scripture.

under OT Scripture being supreme,

Jesus Christ did not place the OT above His Word which He passed on in Sacred Tradition.

 then do not bother taking up more time with more propaganda as you do elsewhere.

Lol! You have been raised up for one purpose, that Catholics may show your heresies to the world and more people may come to God's Church. I pray that you may be amongst them.