On the Trinity

Akoue said:

I'm inclined to agree with those who hold that the doctrine of the Trinity matters a great deal indeed for the economy of salvation.

I respond that:

God didn't intend for all of us to be Theologians. If we were all Theologians, the work which He prepared from the foundation of the world would never be done.

As I understand it, but I am no linguistic, the word used in the Bible for work, is the same word for worship. Therefore, we believe that we glorify God in our work. Our work is worship and our worship is work.

Akoue:

But there is another issue here which is itself quite pressing: monotheism. If the Father is divine and the Son is divine and the Holy Spirit is divine, it is incumbent upon Christians too explain how this can be--or what it even means--unless we are to accused of idolatry. There can be only one God. And though--and I think everybody will agree with this--than none of us can comprehend the Trinity fully, still we must be able to grapple with the question of the nature of the Divinity if we are to have any idea what we worship and to whom we pray.

Here are some ways in which I've explained it in the past:

First, it is a mystery. But a mystery to which God has given us insight here on earth.

You and I share a human nature, do we not? Yet we are distinct persons. So what's the difference between us and the Holy Trinity.

Well, the difference is our limited nature. Human nature is such that we are limited. We are restricted to our space. You in yours and I in mine. But Divine Nature is such that it can't be limited. The attributes of Divine Nature is such that it is Eternal, Omnisicient and Omnipresent.

What does that mean? Well, that means that there can only be One God. God is eternal and therefore there is no "room" for any other God. If God were not eternal, then there could be many gods. But there is only one because the Divine Nature is eternal.

What about the persons? How can there be three Divine Persons? What is Person? A person is distinguished by an attribute that can't be shared. You and I share a human nature but we don't share a name, a personality, a body, a mind and many other characteristics. What is it that the Holy Trinity do not share. An identity, a role, a relationship.

The Father is in the Son, but the Father is not the Son.
The Son is in the Father but the Son is not the Father.
The Holy Spirit is in the Father and the Son, but the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

Three persons SHARE one Divine Nature.

BUT, you say, those three Persons aren't like you and I. They share everything but identity. Whereas, you and I share nothing but nature. True. But even in human beings, there are some "personalities" which share a body, a mind and a spirit.

-It is proven, psychologically, that there are people who suffer from multiple personality syndromes. These multiple personalities share the same nature.

You might say, yeah, but that is a disorder? True. When the personalities are in conflict, it is a disorder.

Although I am not aware of any examples where the personalities were not in conflict, it is possible that is because, when they aren't in conflict, there is no need for corrective intervention.

You might also say, but you and I share the human nature with many human beings. We are talking about a Trinity, not a multiplicity.

True. But the Trinity is revealed as such. If God had revealed a Quintity or even a Centurionity whatever, that is what we would have to accept. God has revealed He is a Trinity, nothing less and nothing more. Therefore we believe and accept although the Mystery is almost beyond the ability of the unaided mind to comprehend.

Then there is the mathematical response. Certainly, 1+1+1 is equal to three. That is only partially true however, because there are Three Divine Persons. But the three persons are also consubstantial. That is, they share the same nature. Since they share the same nature, then it is also correct to use this mathematical formula, 1x1x1 = one.

Finally, a look at nature will show how the entire world reflects the Holy Trinity. If we look at space we see that everything is three dimensional. Everything has width, heighth and depth. Yet everything is one. This is a reflection of the Holy Trinity.

If we consider time, we see that time has past, present and future. Yet where do we divide. When does the past become the present and the present become the past. Time is seamless. Time is one.

I hope that doesn't confound matters even worse.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Query I-A query no Christian has ever been able to provide a satisfactory answer for

This question was asked on one of those question and answer forums on the internet:

Here's a question I've been asking that no Christian has ever been able to provide a satisfactory answer for that does not clearly violate simple rules of logic, or trinitarian Christian theology. I truly believe it's the kernel of truth that has the power to crack apart trinitarian Christianity.

The question is:

"If Jesus is supposed to be fully man and fully God, and died on the cross... Then WHO resurrected him?" 

Explanation of the Holy Trinity

Ha ha!  This post is funny because I just got through telling someone that understanding the nature of the Holy Trinity and therefore explaining it, is impossible.  Here and here.  But on another forum, I find myself in the unenviable position of having to explain the Holy Trinity to someone who objects to the doctrine.  God has a sense of humor.  Here is the exchange, which is going on at this forum.  His words in red.

Fides et Veritas wrote:
Sorry it took me six whole years to think up a response!!

Wow! I didn't notice the date. Thanks for reviving an interesting question.

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But you are one hundred percent correct.

I disagree as I've already noted.

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Let me copy paste what I just posted this morning on another thread about the Trinity. It doesn't cover all but yet covers some of the issues concerning this controversial (among some) doctrine.

I'll post my own response for comparison.

How does Trinity work?

I don't know. It is a mystery revealed by God. Tell me, how does Omniscience or omnipotence work? God is mystery folks and there are somethings about God which our little minds will never comprehend.

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How does Trinity work? It doesn't nor can it ever. Paganism has no place with the Bible

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not Paganism. Although we don't know how it works, we do know what was revealed. God is a Trinity of Persons. God is not three human persons. God is three Divine Persons. That is a very big difference.

We can't understand that idea because we are human and are constrained by time and space. But God is not. God is not constrained by time and space. So, lets compare God to man.

1. A human person is constrained to one place and one time. That is our nature. Therefore, you Fides and I are in two different places at the same time. But can't occupy the same space at the same time. Because we of our human nature. Therefore there are millions of us occupying our little space in time. But we don't overlap each other.

2. However, God is not constrained by time or space. God has a DIVINE nature which is not constrained by creation. Therefore, God is He in whom we live, move and are. God is HE WHO IS. Yahweh. All things exist in God.

That means that there can only be one God. One Divine Nature. There is no room for a second.

3. However, God has revealed that there are three persons who are God. Now, there may be three PERSONS in God. But they can't be three different Gods. They must share the same Divine nature. Therefore, three Divine Persons, One Divine Nature, One God.

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How many God's are there? There is one God Family, currently composed of two God beings

There are three Divine Persons. And yes, God is a family of persons. God the Father, God the Son and God the Love which binds the Father and the Son.

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Is Jesus God? Yes. He is the second member of the Family, formerly known as the Logos (is that where Prince got that?).

The reference goes over my head. But God is the second Divine Person, that is true.

Quote:Is Jesus human? When the Word (Logos) became flesh he divested himself of divinity. He was human.

God became man but did not divest Himself of His Divinity. He simply concealed it in His humanity.

Quote:Can a human be God? No

Everything is possible with God.

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Can God be a human?.He can divest himself of divinity and become human. At such time He would cease to be God

Jesus did not cease to be God when He became man. He simply concealed His Divinity.

Quote:Is Jesus the son of God? Yes

Agreed.

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Is Jesus the son of Jesus? No

No, Jesus is the Divine Son of the Father. Jesus was generated in eternity. As was the Holy  Spirit. Both Jesus and the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father. The Holy Spirit also proceeds from Jesus.

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When Jesus said, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”, was he talking to himself? No. He was speaking to the remaining member of the God Family, the Father.

He was talking to the First Person of the Holy Trinity, God the Father.

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Did Jesus raise himself from the dead? No. God the Father did.

Jesus raised Himself from the dead:
John 10:17-19
King James Version (KJV)
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

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Did God die? No. What took place was an extreme risk. As a human Christ risked everything. If he failed he would have forfeited not only his life but all of ours as the Death Penalty required for sin could not be paid. When he died it was a human that passed away, but due to his divine birthright it made him worth the sum total of all humans, past, present and future.

I'm afraid yours is a misunderstanding of what occurs in death.

Death is not the same thing as annihilation. Death is the time when the physical body ceases to function. Even in humans, only the physical body ceases to function. But the human spirit continues to exist and to live. Christ said this of the righteous:
John 11:26
King James Version (KJV)
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Therefore, on the Cross, Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, died. His human body ceased to function, but His Divine Spirit continued to exist. Then His Divine Spirit exited the human body and death occurred. Then His Divine Spirit took over His human body again and transformed it into a Spiritual Body and Jesus was resurrected from the dead. Of His own power.

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Was God sacrificed to God? No. Christ was human.

Yes. The Jews, although they did not know what they were doing, actually sacrificed Jesus, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, God Himself, to God the Father. It is a mystery of God's which is beyond our understanding. But St. Paul treats of it slightly here:
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

God is the Testator. And in order for the righteous to receive the promises of the Old Testament, God had to die. And He did. On the Cross.

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Who is the Holy Spirit? Who? Nothing. What? The power wielded by the God Family to effect change and influence matter and spirit.

He is the Power of God, the other Comforter whom God has sent to us through the intercession of Christ our Lord.

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This by no means a full explanation but it is yet a start. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
This is one of my most favorite topics.

It is a great topic indeed.

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Thanks!!

You're welcome.

Sincerely,

De Maria