Showing posts with label John 6. Show all posts
Showing posts with label John 6. Show all posts

Friday, July 24, 2020

Jesus was speaking plainly, John 6




JQ said,
That's completely irrelevant, since it was God who provided Ezekiel with all the details concerning what he should do and what he should say.
And it is God who explained the metaphor:
Ezekiel 5:1 And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair.  2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.  3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.  4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.


5 Thus saith the Lord God; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.  6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.  7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you;


8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.


That's begging the question. Why should He have called "those guys" back?
Because an honest person would not allow people to make a decision based upon misunderstanding. And Jesus was nothing if not absolutely honest.

In fact, John 6:65 clearly indicates that those who went away in disbelief were not enabled by God to come to Him.
That is correct. They could not believe.


Elsewhere we read that Jesus spoke in parables so that the non-elect would not understand His message.
Elsewhere it says that Jesus spoke in parables to the unbelieving Jews, but He would explain them to the Apostles.

Mark 4:10-12
10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.



That's an argument from silence.
You are confused. You are the one claiming that Jesus was speaking symbolically. But there is no evidence that He was doing any such thing. The evidence points to the fact that He was speaking plainly:

John 6

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world….

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Therefore, you are the one arguing from silence. I am arguing from what He said. You are arguing from what He didn't say.

There is no indication in that passage that His true disciples were offended by His words or that they took His words literally.
You are wrong. Amongst those who left were many true disciples. So says Scripture.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

One can use figurative language and still mean what one says, as in e.g. John 10:1ff and John 15:1ff.
And one can use explicit language as well. Its not a matter of what one can do, but of what Jesus actually did. He was speaking plainly.

Friday, July 17, 2020

Jesus meant what He said, John 6


JQ said,
Likewise, Ezekiel was commanded to take one third of his hair and beard and burn it in fire, take one third and strike it with the sword, and take the remaining third and let the wind scatter it. The interpretation of this symbolic act was to be presented as "This is Jerusalem". (Ezekiel 5:1ff)
Ezekiel is not God, is he? Jesus is God, isn't He?

If Jesus were speaking symbolically, He would have called these guys back and said, "Hey, guys, come on, I was speaking symbolically." 

John 6:60-66

King James Version (KJV)

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.



But He didn't. And He didn't take the Apostles aside and say to them, "This is a symbol." No, He didn't. He said:

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

He said exactly what He meant.