Saved by grace in the Sacraments - 1

 

De Maria

2 days ago

ROM,

Its like this. You are saved by faith, but not by faith alone as some claim. And you may not be saved by showing up to Mass. But you won't be saved if you don't. See Heb 10:25-30.

And yes, you are saved by going to Confession and repenting of your sins. That is how a man reconciles with God. See 2 Cor 5:18.

And finally, you are saved by FAITH that God alone can save you, through the Sacraments which are the works of God, it is FAITH in His operation that one is saved, not by our works, but by the Washing of Regeneration which is the operation of the Holy Spirit. See Titus 3:5; Col 2:12

Only those who obey Christ will be saved

1. DE MARIA May 25, 2013 at 10:34 am

   ROBERT May 25, 2013 at 10:16 am
   De Maria,
   Actually, I don’t feel good about myself. I am confident in my salvation not because I am faithful but because the Judge became incarnate and gave His life for me,

   He gave His life for all men. Including those who reject Him and wind up condemned.
   Hebrews 2:3
   How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

   and, believing in His resurrection I am saved.

   Only those who obey Christ will be saved:
   Hebrews 5:9
   And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

   Your personal claims of salvation amount to the sin of presumption. You have exalted yourself above your station:
   Luke 18:14 ….for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

   Before God’s bar of justice, I am not faithful.

   If you know this for a fact, then how are you saved? Only the holy will see the Lord. Not the faithless.
   Hebrews 12:14
   Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

   He doesn’t grade on a curve, y’know.

   How God grades is His business.

   Throwing out a random verse from Romans 14 that is not dealing with justification proves nothing.

   Whenever you are ready, we can go through the Scriptures which deal with justification. Let us begin with this one:
   Romans 2:13
   (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

   You should actually try and make an argument from a verse that is pertinent to the situation.

   You should try to understand Scripture according to the way Scripture prescribes:
   2 Corinthians 3:6
   Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

   Apparently, you don’t know that you are saved. At least you’re being consistent with Roman teaching.

   It is from Scripture. We leave judgment to almighty God:
   

   1 Corinthians 4:2-4
   King James Version (KJV)
   2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

   But I tell you that you can know you are saved and that God wants you to know if you are saved. But that would mean trusting in Christ alone and not in a church that cannot save you. If you can participate in the mass daily and still end up in hell, the sacraments are doing absolutely nothing for you.

   Whether the Sacraments and the Mass are doing anything for me is between me and God. You need to attend to your own duty.
   

   Luke 17:10
   So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

   Sincerely,

   De Maria

Feel good religion

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   ROBERT May 25, 2013 at 6:30 am
   ….If I’m a Muslim or Buddhist who does good and “feels” close to God, I’m going to end up in heaven anyway…..

   Nope. The Catholic Church teaches that God is our judge. Your opinion about yourself has nothing to do with whether you will wind up in heaven.

   For example:
   As a Protestant, you claim that you are saved because you consider yourself faithful. You feel good about yourself.

   The Catholic Church says that it doesn’t matter how faithful you claim to be. You are not the Judge. God is the one who decides whether you will be in heaven or not.

   In the same way, God will judge the Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and pagan of every sort, including also, the atheists:
   

   Romans 14:10
   But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

   Sincerely,

   De Maria
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God does not grade on a curve

De Maria,

Apparently, you don’t know that you are saved. At least you’re being consistent with Roman teaching. 

The Catholic Church is consistent with Biblical Teaching:

1 Corinthians 4:3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

But I tell you that you can know you are saved and that God wants you to know if you are saved. 

That's true.  But Scripture qualifies that statement with a very important fact:

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.  2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.  3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

So, if we keep His Commandments, we can be sure that we will go to heaven.  Do you keep His Commandments?  Yes or no.

But that would mean trusting in Christ alone and not in a church that cannot save you. 

And yet, Scripture instructs you to trust in the Church:

1 Timothy 3:15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Otherwise, Scripture would not call the Church, the Pillar and Ground of the Truth.

If you can participate in the mass daily and still end up in hell, the sacraments are doing absolutely nothing for you.

There's no difference there from the Protestant who claims to have faith but ends up in hell.  There are many, Scripture says, who will have faith in vain.

1 Timothy 1:19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,  5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,  6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Throwing out a random verse from Romans 14 that is not dealing with justification proves nothing. You should actually try and make an argument from a verse that is pertinent to the situation.

All the verses I've provided are pertinent to the situation, you just don't want to hear it.  You're living in denial of the truth.

Actually, I don’t feel good about myself. I am confident in my salvation not because I am faithful but because the Judge became incarnate and gave His life for me, and, believing in His resurrection I am saved. Before God’s bar of justice, I am not faithful. He doesn’t grade on a curve, y’know.

Several points here:

1.  You call God your Judge but you deny that He will judge you.  Thus, you are making yourself the judge of your salvation.

2.  You declare yourself unfaithful, yet you claim that God will allow you into heaven, even though you acknowledge that He does not grade on a curve.  Thus, damning yourself, because you are right.  God does not lie, God does not fudge.  You are either worthy of salvation or not.  God alone judges that fact.

1 Corinthians 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.  9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,  10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

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Assurance of Salvation is Catholic Teaching

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Originally Posted by Tom Hello to all,

Hi

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Is there an official Catholic position on having assurance of the salvation of one's soul when he dies?

Yes. The official position is that one is assured of salvation when God says he is saved.

CCC 1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

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For the sake of discussion, let's assume we are talking about a good Catholic man who was baptized in the Catholic Church, is in good standing with the Church, is a regular attendee at Mass and who by all accounts loves and follows God with his whole heart.

The Catholic Teaching is that WE can't judge this man's heart. 

I'll give you an example. There was once a man who by all accounts, was considered a good person and was even a deacon in a church. It turns out that this man was a serial killer. 

Man cannot judge the heart. Only God can do so. There is the Wisdom of the Catholic Church confirmed.

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In my evangelical tradition, it is believed that if we believe in and accept Christ as our Savior and Lord, are baptized, and confess and turn away from our sins and live a God-fearing life with God's help (although we all sin and fall short on our own), that we may have assurance that when we die, we will go to heaven if we put our hope and faith in Christ. (John 3:16, I John 5:13, etc).

That agrees with the Catholic Church. We call this assurance, hope, or expectation. When we hope, we expect to receive something.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

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Note: I am not speaking of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) doctrine, which I don't ahere to. I am referring to a salvation experience that is like a person being thrown a lifesaver when Christ becomes his Savior and can exclaim "I am saved", then can say "I am being saved" as he is being pulled in to the boat, and then can say "I am saved" when he gets into the boat.

This is in agreement with the Catholic Teaching. I'm certain that a man can say, "I am saved", when his soul enters into heaven.

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To me, the lifesaver experience is what we get when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. We are saved when we accept Him as Lord and Savior. We are then in the process of being saved here on earth as we live out our faith with God's help until we die, at which time we are permanently saved upon arriving to be with God in heaven. The key is to hang on to the life preserver and not willingly let go, condemn it, or swim away from it. How is that view similar to of different from the Catholic position?

You don't have the Sacraments. Let me see if I can make point by point comparison.

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the lifesaver experience is what we get when we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

I think this corresponds to the prevenient grace of faith, which God pours in our hearts and if we accept it, we turn to Him and begin to seek to please Him.

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We are saved when we accept Him as Lord and Savior. We are then in the process of being saved here on earth as we live out our faith with God's help until we die, .

This is where the Sacraments come in. It is in the Sacraments that we receive the help of God's grace that we may persevere through the hard times. Please see this. The pertinent matter starts at about 53 minutes.

Dr. Scott Hahn makes things easy to understand. But the point is, it is in the Sacraments that we receive the Sanctifying Grace of Jesus Christ. It is because of the Sacraments that we can call the Saints our brothers.

Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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Thanks in advance, Tom

I hope that helps,

Sincerely,

De Maria