Catholics are the modern Bereans.

Calvin:
Beareans checked teachings against scripture.

So did the Thessalonicans.

RCC would be wise to do so.

The Catholic Church behaves precisely as did the Bereans. Catholics are the modern Bereans. We accept Tradition and Scripture according to the Teaching of the Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Catholic Teaching is radical

Someone said:
Yes, conservative doesn't seem like the right word to me, either. Upholding the faith is not very conservative, as our faith is not very conservative. I'm not sure why we would call someone who upholds the faith conservative. I worry what the word you might have for those who don't defend the faith might be.

I consider myself a conservative Catholic. Although I'm sure that the world considers all Catholic Teaching radical.

Conservative is from the root "conserve". That is, to maintain. Jesus was not conservative because He did not come to maintain the status quo. He came to fulfill the established religion and establish a new religion. This is so "radical" that God, His Father, had prescribed death as the penalty for this action.

Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death;

But, every Christian thereafter sought to pass down the Faith of Jesus Christ without deviation. Therefore they sought to conserve the truth which Jesus deposited with the Church.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Catholic Teaching is radically different from the teaching of the world.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

It will always be so. A conservative Catholic is one who maintains and passes down this Faith which is so radically different than that which the surrounding world will accept:

Romans 12:
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 

John 17:16
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Sincerely,

De Maria

That means that "the Scriptures ALONE" were not sufficient

Lutero:

All this says is the man needed someone to show him the scriptures that point to Christ.

Excellent! That means that "the Scriptures ALONE" were not sufficient. 

I mean really now...if someone doesn't have scriptures how can they know Him?

Good point. That is why the Church TEACHES the Scriptures.

So this does not prove your point.
next.....

Yes, it does. Next.

and what is the point of this? The point is that they twisted the scriptures just to justify their doctrines...JUST LIKE THE RCC
that proves nothing
next............

Nope. Like the Protestants. Next.

Again misquoted...Paul is speaking of his teachings.......\
next..........

The Scripture plainly says, "traditions". Next.

That is correct so you had best stop praying to Mary and trash your Marian dogmas! They are unscriptural and not in the bible
next.........

It is you who needs to begin to pray to Mary in obedience of Scripture. Let me show you:
Scripture says that God's will should be done on earth as it is in heaven.
And God wills that the Angels praise Mary:


Luke 1:26-28
King James Version (KJV)
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Let's break this down:
ANGEL GABRIEL
1. an angel is a messenger of God. That is what the word, angel, means.
2. this angel, Gabriel, is one of the four angels that stands before the throne of God.
WAS SENT FROM GOD
1. God sent this angel to Mary.
2. Since this angel is a messenger of God's, God sent Him to deliver a message.
3. Therefore, the angel was not speaking on his own, but was communicating God's message to Mary.
4. If we skip down to verse 28, we see that this was a message of praise (i.e. blessed art thou).
5. Therefore God praised Mary through His Angel.
That is great praise indeed. Do you know of any man whose praise is worth more than God's? In other words, what do you value more highly, the praise of man or the praise of God?
But, there's more. God sent the Angel to do His Will. What is His Will. Obviously, God sent the Angel to deliver a message of praise. Therefore it is God's will that the Angels praise Mary.
And there's yet more. Because the Holy Spirit inspired a holy woman to exclaim, ""Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! "
still in:
Luke 1:41-45
King James Version (KJV)
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Should we break this down?
1. The Holy Spirit is God the Third Person of the Holy Trinity.
2. Therefore, God inspired Elisabeth to praise Mary.
3. This praise is inscribed in the Word of God for all generations.
4. Since Elisabeth is a member of the human race, then it is safe to conclude that God wills that men praise Mary.
5. And we find, again, that God praised Mary through His Saint. Saint Elisabeth praised Mary when she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to do so. That means that it is the Holy Spirit's praise which she passed on. That is why Scripture is called the Word of God. Because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Need we say more? Let's do it anyway.
Mother of God
Luke 1:43-45
New International Version (NIV)
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!” 
Lets break this down:
1. The word "Lord" is here mentioned two times.
2. In the second instance, it is an obvious reference to God. "Blessed is she who believes that the LORD would fulfill His promises." That is an obvious reference to God.
3. Therefore, then, what could she possibly have meant when she said, "mother of my LORD"?
4. Since she was inspired by the Holy Spirit to utter these words, she must have meant what is most obvious. Is Jesus, God? Yes. Therefore, the words she uttered could also be translated, "mother of my GOD".
5. So, God explicitly teaches us, in His Word, that Mary is the Mother of God.


Is there any higher praise than that?


And finally, Scripture says: 
Matthew 6:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Thus, God wills that mankind PRAISE Mary. This is confirmed by Mary herself when she says,
"From now on all generations will call me blessed (Luke 1:48)."

This of course is the RCC

The Pillar and Foundation of the Truth (1 Tim 3:15).

sola scriptura is not a tradition. It is scriptural, unlike your traditions

Show me from Scripture.

You are joking me right?
You don't know where that is in the bible and you claim the catholics did it. OH MY the blasphemy of it all.
I'll show you the scriptures...hope you don't mind if I copy it off another site, I don't feel like typing it all out, because there are so MANY
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Anyone who studies the bible with discernment knows this is the trinity.
The ARROGANCE of the RCC to say they made this up frankly makes me ill.
GOD DEVELOPED AND EXPLAINED THIS. HIS WORD SAYS IT

I wish you would study scripture before you quote and say these things.

Really? All that to say nothing at all? I want you to show me the definition of the Holy Trinity in Scripture. The Church used all those Scriptures to come up with the definition. I don't see the words Holy Trinity, Three Divine Persons. The definition of the Holy Trinity goes like this. The Holy Trinity means that Three Divine Persons make One God.

Now, show it to me in Scripture. Because that website, got its information from the Catholic Church. It is the Church which defined the meaning of the Holy Trinity and has taught to all the world from that time.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Believing in scriptures for doctrine is Catholic Teaching

Calvina:
Believing in scriptures for doctrine and testing all doctrine against scripture is not a man made tradition. It is Gods Word.

It is also a Catholic doctrine. Notice that you did not say, Scripture alone. If you insert the word "alone" after Scripture, then it becomes a false and man made doctrine. However, one of the tests of the truth of a doctrine is to compare it to Scripture. And that is what I'm about to do with your false doctrine of sola Scriptura. I'm going to compare it to the Scripture you provided below.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness(2 tim 3:16)

2 Timothy 2:15, KJV

Lets break this down. 

First, this says, All scripture not Scripture alone. Why? Because it is not true that Scripture alone is inspired by God. So is Tradition. So is the preaching of Holy men. Here's the proof:

2 Peter 1:21-22

King James Version (KJV)
²¹ For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Holy men of God were inspired by the Holy Ghost. Therefore, it is not true that Scripture ALONE is inspired of God. Here's another:
John 20:22

King James Version (KJV)
²² And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Jesus is God and He breathed upon these men. Therefore, they are God breathed, or inspired. Again disproving the Protestant doctrine that Scripture alone is God breathed.

So, what does it mean to say that "Scripture is God breathed"? It is a poetical and shorthand way of saying that God inspired men to preach and then to write the Word of God in Scripture. But the word "alone" is an addition to the word of God by fallible and unfaithful men who put themselves above the Word of God.

Lets continue. Does the verse say that Scripture alone is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and for instruction? No. The word alone is not found anywhere. And profitable does not mean "necessary". It simply means useful. Many things are profitable for the instruction of the man of God.

Acts 20:20
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

Many things which the Apostle Paul taught were profitable.

1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
All Godliness is profitable to man's soul.
Titus 3:8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Good works are also profitable.

But here's the kicker. All Scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. Who is doing the reproofing, correction and instruction? The Preacher or Teacher. Scripture does not preach itself. Scripture does not teach itself. Scripture does not correct those who misunderstand the Word of God written within its pages.

Scripture alone is a tradition of men.

Finally, all you really have to do is read 2 Tim 3:16 within the context it was written and you'll see that St. Paul was not writing about Scripture alone but about the passing on of the Faith by Tradition:

2 Tim 1:¹³ Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
¹⁴ That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

2 Timothy 2

King James Version (KJV)
1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
² And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.



2 Timothy 4

King James Version (KJV)
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
² Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

That's about passing down Tradition. Not about handing out books.


Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Show me where that says to study the Scripture alone. Because Scripture says that:
1. it is advisable to let the Church guide us through Scripture:Acts 8:30-32

King James Version (KJV)
³⁰ And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
³¹ And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
³² The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

2. In addition, Scripture says we should study the faith of other men:
Hebrews 13:7

King James Version (KJV)
⁷ Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
So, show me where the verse you presented says anything about Scripture ALONE?



"And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
Acts 17:10-11, KJV

Excellent! What is the difference between the Thessalonicans and the Bereans? Is it that the Thessalonicans did not receive the Scriptures? Or that they did not receive the Traditions of Christ?
The Thessalonicans were also Jews. They already had the Scriptures. They refused to believe the Traditions of Christ taught by the Church, represented by Sts. Paul and Silas. 
Acts 17

King James Version (KJV)
1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
² And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
³ Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
⁴ And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
⁵ But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

The Bereans were more noble because they accepted the Traditions taught by the Church and found them in the Scriptures. That is the Catholic doctrine of Tradition, Scripture and Magisterium!

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1, KJV

Absolutely true! That is how Luther was discovered. The Church applied the test of Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium upon his teachings and they were found wanting.

You are also wrong as we do not reject the body of Christ His church...we believe in the body of Christ, the true believers, as His church.

You reject the True Church and accept a false gathering of people who oppose the Word of God.

It is those who think they can change scripture and make up traditions that are nullifying Christ:

The Protestants, beginning with Luther, fit that description.

"The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has authority and has often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." - Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap.

I have no idea who wrote that, but I guarantee you that it is not a teaching of the Church.

"...the church is above the Bible, and the transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

I don't know who that is either. Here's the official teaching from the Church:
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."

"The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." Canon and Tradition, p. 263

That's true. Christ gave the Church authority to bind and loose:
Matthew 16:18-19

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁸ And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
¹⁹ And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁸ Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "DOES NOT derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. BOTH SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION MUST BE ACCEPTED AND HONORED WITH EQUAL SENTIMENTS OF DEVOTION AND REVERENCE. Catechism of Catholic Doctrine Page 31

Absolutely true! Here is what the Scripture says:
2 Thessalonians 2:14-16

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁴ Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
¹⁵ Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
....2 Thessalonians 3

King James Version (KJV)
⁶ Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
That is pretty plain speaking. Hold the Traditions and stay away from those who don't.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Saved by grace through faith apart from works in the Sacraments

Calvin:

If that is true, then explain them to me. I didn't twist anything. I posted God's word. So tell me what the Catholic interpretation of these verses me. Do NOT post anymore out of context Scripture to me. Address these Scriptures and explain why you believe they do not say that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works.

Hm? When did I say that we are not saved by grace through faith apart from works? Read what I said again and ask the appropriate question. It is Catholic Teaching that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works in the Sacraments. We do not save ourselves by our works alone or by our faith alone.....

When St. Paul said, “justified by faith apart from works”, Luther interpreted that as faith “alone”: But that s not what St. Paul meant. St. Paul was teaching the justification which occurs in the Sacraments.

Let me explain:

St. Paul taught the Catholic Teaching that only those who do the works of the Law are justified:

Romans 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

In Catholic Teaching, we are justified by faith and works. That is the foundation and root of all justification. Faith is expressed and perfected in works.

However, the Church also teaches that we are justified in the Sacraments where we are washed in sanctifying grace. Especially Baptism. Sacraments are God’s mighty works. We don’t do anything except submit to His works in the proper dispostion, which is that of faith.

This is the Justification by faith apart from works to which St. Paul referred.

The process is evident in every semester of RCIA. By faith, we seek the Lord and study to show ourselves approved. Only those who undergo this process are then JUSTIFIED in Baptism.

Lets take another example.

St. Paul says:
Galatians 2:16

King James Version (KJV)

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Notice how he repeatedly says here, "faith OF Christ". Not "by faith IN Christ". He is not speaking about believing in Christ. That is assumed. He is speaking about the observance of the rituals instituted by Christ in His new way. He is speaking of the Sacraments.

And this, is Luther's error. He did not connect the Sacramental teaching of St. Paul. Luther recognized the Sacraments and he recognized the perfection of the sinner in the justification by faith. But denied the merit of that expression of faith in good works without which no one will be saved. And he applied St. Paul's teaching wrongly across the board. He failed to recognize the difference between the justification by faith and works that occurs as a result of the effort of the man of God which is illustrated by St. Peter below:

2 Peter 1:4-10

King James Version (KJV)

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

And that justifcation by faith apart from works which occurs by the action of God in the Sacraments:

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Sincerely,

De Maria