the only part of the Old Testament that was written by God was the Ten Commandments

De Maria October 20, 2012 at 10:05 PM

I am a devout Catholic. I disagree with your claim that the tradition of the Jews disagreed with the Old Testament Bible. Your logic is flawed and your interpretation about what Jesus said is simply wrong.

First of all, the only part of the Old Testament that was written by God was the Ten Commandments which He wrote in His own hand, on a stone.

The rest were transmitted by word FIRST and then were written down, much later. If you read the text in context, you see that some of the writings attributed to Moses could not have been written by Moses since they were writing about the time when he died.

Deuteronomy 34:7
And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

Therefore, except for the Ten Commandments, the rest of the Old Testament was first taught by word, handed down in tradition and then written down. And it was taught by Word and by Scripture through the centuries. Simultaneously. Just as the Catholic Church continues to do so today.

Leviticus 10:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;
11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the Lord hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.
12 And Moses spake unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons that were left, Take the meat offering that remaineth of the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and eat it without leaven beside the altar: for it is most holy:

Sincerely,

De Maria

Who is the Schoolmaster that leads us to Christ?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This verse was written by St. Paul of Tarsus.  What is he talking about? Most people seem to think he is talking about the Ten Commandments.  And there's nothing wrong with that answer 
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THAT is why the Ten Commandments were not abolished

Disco:
That's not the gospel of the new covenant in Christ's blood.

Yes, it is.

No one can perfectly keep the commandments or the law.

Some have:

Luke 1:6

King James Version (KJV)
⁶ And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

It's not just the physical act of adultery or stealing that is sin but lusting after a man or woman and coveting.

Your are correct.

You don't perfectly keep the commandments and neither does anyone else.

1 Corinthians 4:2-4

King James Version (KJV)
² Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
³ But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
⁴ For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Only Christ perfectly kept and fulfilled the law.

Scripture says that others have also done so.

The law wasn't given to save us but to show us our sin so we would come to Christ to be saved by faith.

THAT is why the Ten Commandments were not abolished. We still need to be shown our sin and come to Christ by faith (working in love).

Sincerely,

De Maria

We actually believe Jesus

Disco:
Catholics are all over the place and they talk out of both sides of their mouths. They'll say they believe that salvation is only in Jesus Christ and then they'll turn around and tell you that you have to keep the law to be saved. It's like they don't even read the Bible or something. They have yet to accept what the real gospel is and it's not "keep the law/commandments and thou shalt be saved." I wonder if they even need Jesus and the cross, they seem to be making it their own way.

We actually believe Jesus:

Mark 10:17-21

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁷ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
¹⁸ And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
¹⁹ Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
²⁰ And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
²¹ Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

It would have been very simple for Jesus to simply say, "You need do nothing at all, your faith alone will save you." But He didn't.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Jesus abolished the ordinances

FH:Then that would include the 10.....

No. That does not include the Ten. Scripture is very clear:
Mark 10:17-19
King James Version (KJV)
¹⁷ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
¹⁸ And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
¹⁹Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Anyone who knows the Ten Commandments, recognizes them in this teaching.

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it....

That is correct. And He did
He fulfilled all the Law, including the ordinances. But He only abolished the ordinances. The Ten Commandments remain the foundation of our Faith.

John 14:21

King James Version (KJV)
²¹ He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1 John 3:24

King James Version (KJV)
²⁴ And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Revelation 22:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
¹³ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
¹⁴ Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
¹⁵ For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Sincerely,

De Maria

But only the Ten Commandments were written by the Finger of God

RB:DeMaria... read the headline news: THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE ABOLISHED!

That is news.

Read all about it in 2 Corinthians 3 where the 10 commandments are abolished four times!

In vs.7 read about the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones ... abolished

In vs.9, 11 read about the ministry of condemnation... abolished

In vs 14 read how the old covenant... is abolished in Christ.

And read in vs. 16 how it is written that whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil which refers to the 10 commandments, is abolished.

Sounds as though you are saying that the Ten Commandments are abolished?

Then, if that is true, you are teaching that Scripture contradicts itself. Because Scripture says:
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of thecommandments of God.

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So, if are teaching that the Commandments are abolished, you are contradicting the Word of God.

You see, all the law was written upon stone:

Deuteronomy 27:7-9

King James Version (KJV)
⁷ And thou shalt offer peace offerings, and shalt eat there, and rejoice before the Lord thy God.
⁸ And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly.
⁹ And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God.

But only the Ten Commandments were written by the Finger of God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Jesus blotted out the ordinances

FH:But there are over 600...why do you think you don't have to keep them? God didn't have JUST 10 commandments.

Have you not read in Scripture?

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Sincerely,

De Maria

God wrote the Ten Commandments on a block of stone

FH:
If the keeping the law could save, Jesus died in vain....

I didn't say the law could save.

that you don't know this much speaks volumes....

First quote me saying what you claim and then you can claim that I don't know something.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Scripture does not contradict itself:

Romans 2:13

King James Version (KJV)
¹³ (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Therefore the message is clear.
1. Those who do not keep the Commandments will not be saved.
2. Those who do will be saved, by God. Not by the Commandments.
3. The Commandments are the line between salvation and condemnation. Those who keep the Commandments will be saved by God. Those who don't, will be condemned:
Revelation 22:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
¹³ I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
¹⁴ Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
¹⁵ For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Salvation is by grace through faith...

But not by faith alone.

always has been always will be....

Agreed. By faith which works by love:
Galatians 5:6

King James Version (KJV)
⁶ For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

if you think you are going to be saved by keeping the commandments, you won't be saved.

On the contrary, if you think you will be saved by not keeping the Commandment, you won't be saved:
Deuteronomy 7:9

King James Version (KJV)
⁹ Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Read that carefully. God will save those who keep His Commandments. 

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Read this:
Luke 18:9

King James Version (KJV)
⁹ And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

We do not rely upon ourselves or our works, but upon God.
Luke 18:10-14

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁰ Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
¹¹ The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
¹² I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
¹³ And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
¹⁴ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

This parable exactly describes Protestants. Because they rely upon their claim of faith. But not upon God.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

This is key. We are created for good works. CREATED. 

John 1:3

King James Version (KJV)
³ All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Even those who are not baptized are made for good works. Even those who are not justified are made for good works:
Romans 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁵ Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT WE HAVE DONE, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

This is a reference to Baptism, the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit in the Sacraments. They are God's work of mercy.

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

In other words, God's plan of salvation does not depend upon what we do. Jesus came to save us from sin precisely because we did not do the works which God commanded.

50 Go in peace. YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU.

When we present ourselves to Christ in the Sacraments, He tells us the same thing:
Mark 16:16

King James Version (KJV)
¹⁶ He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

BTW, There are over 600 commandments, not just 10....do you keep them all?

But God only wrote Ten.
Those are the most important ones.
Deuteronomy 4:13

King James Version (KJV)
¹³ And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

What is your calling?

Recently, a friend of mine, a Protestant, married for over twenty years, said to me that he felt called to drop everything and go to Africa to help the poor and the sick.

I said to him, "That's not a calling from God.  That sounds like a calling from Satan who is trying to destroy your marriage.  If you answer that call, you will wreck the vocation of matrimony and fatherhood with which God has already blessed you."

Coincidentally, around the same time, my youngest son said to me, "Everyone is telling me I should be a priest.  But I don't want to be a priest.  I don't know what I want to do.  How does anyone know what God wants them to do?"

I said to him, "God wants you to be a good person.  From that point on, its up to you what you want to do.  If you want to be a farmer, if you want to be a singer, if you want to be a fireman, first, keep the Commandments.  Be a good person.  That is what God wants you to do.  The rest is up to you.  If, at some point, you recognize a desire to be a priest, answer it.  Til then, keep the Commandments and do what you enjoy doing."

Folks, we all have the same calling.  That calling is righteousness.  We are all called, by God, to keep the Ten Commandments.  That's it.

If you're a plumber, and you do your best to be righteous in the eyes of God, you will become the best plumber you can be.

If you are a hairdresser and you do your best to keep the Ten Commandments, you will become the best hairdresser you can be.

If you are a Priest or a Nun and you keep the Ten Commandments, you will become the best Priest or Nun that you can be.

Whether we are Catholic, Protestant, pagan or anything else.  If you keep the Ten Commandments, you are answering God's call.

Keeping the Ten Commandments, being righteous, is our first and major duty.  Once we do that, everything else will fall into place:

Matthew 6:32-34New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

32 All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom [of God] and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides. 34 Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will take care of itself. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.

The concept cannot be understood without understanding the demand of the Law

Lutero says: 

Continuation:
(4) The concept cannot be understood without understanding the demand of the Law toward us. The Law is God’s expression of His righteousness and holiness such that “the Law is holy, righteous and good” (Rom 7:12; “The Law of the Lord is perfect” (Ps 19:7)). The promise of the Law is righteousness: “If we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.” (Deut 6:25). It is called the “Law of Righteousness” (Rom 9:31). The Scripture affirms that “those who obey the Law will be declared righteous” (Rom 2:13). Further, “The man who does these things will live by them” (Rom 10:5; Lev 18:5). The Law was “intended to bring life” (Rom 7:10) if obeyed in its entirety.

(5) The concept cannot be understood without understanding sin. If the Law is the reflection of God’s righteousness, sin or unrighteousness (wickedness) is the transgression of the Law. Thus, if the Law is broken the man will reap “unrighteousness” and that “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (Gal 3:10; Deut 27:26). “Every mouth maybe silenced and the world held accountable to God” (Rom 3:20) under the Law. The conclusion therefore of Scripture is this, “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact sin is lawlessness” (John 3:4). The demand of the Law is perfect obedience because “whoever keeps the whole Law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it” (Jam 2:8). Thus, Paul made it clear that “Jews and are Gentiles are all under sin” (Rom 3: 9). In other words, all human beings have been measured through the Law (Rom 3:20 i.e. “through the Law comes the knowledge of sin”) but all have transgressed the Law (Rom 3:19). Thus, “There is none righteous, not even one” (Rom 3:10).

• 
  

  Hi Lutero, you said: 

  Continuation:
  (4) The concept cannot be understood without understanding the demand of the Law toward us. 

  Ok.
  

  The Law is God’s expression of His righteousness and holiness such that “the Law is holy, righteous and good” (Rom 7:12; “The Law of the Lord is perfect” (Ps 19:7)). The promise of the Law is righteousness: “If we are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.” (Deut 6:25). It is called the “Law of Righteousness” (Rom 9:31). The Scripture affirms that “those who obey the Law will be declared righteous” (Rom 2:13). Further, “The man who does these things will live by them” (Rom 10:5; Lev 18:5). The Law was “intended to bring life” (Rom 7:10) 

  All that is true. And all that confirms what Nick said.
  

  if obeyed in its entirety. 

  It seems to me, that Protestants make a whole new gospel out of these 5 little words. Have you read in Scripture?
  

  1 John 1:9
  King James Version (KJV)
  9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 

  Therefore, even if we do not obey the law in its entirety, but repent and confess our sins, we will be forgiven.
  
  Therefore also, if we do not obey the law in its entirety and obstinately continue in our disobedience, without repentance, we will be condemned.
  

  Revelation 22:12-15
  King James Version (KJV)
  12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
  13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
  14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
  15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 

  (5) The concept cannot be understood without understanding sin. If the Law is the reflection of God’s righteousness, sin or unrighteousness (wickedness) is the transgression of the Law. 

  Absolutely!
  

  Thus, if the Law is broken the man will reap “unrighteousness” and that “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (Gal 3:10; Deut 27:26). 

  Still true. Remember that the righteous man fall seven times AND GETS UP!

  Proverbs 24:16
  King James Version (KJV)
  16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. 

  That means that the righteous man will repent and ask forgiveness for his sins and be forgiven. The wicked man will continue in his sins.

  
  

  “Every mouth maybe silenced and the world held accountable to God” (Rom 3:20) under the Law. The conclusion therefore of Scripture is this, “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact sin is lawlessness” (John 3:4). 

  True.
  

  The demand of the Law is perfect obedience because “whoever keeps the whole Law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it” (Jam 2:8). 

  Wrong. The GOAL of the law is perfection of the man of God:
  

  Matt 5:
  48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 

  But God knows that we are not perfect and has thus provided for us a way out:
  

  Ezekiel 18:21
  King James Version (KJV)
  21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 

  All we need do is repent of our sins and God will forgive us.

   
  

  Thus, Paul made it clear that “Jews and are Gentiles are all under sin” (Rom 3: 9). In other words, all human beings have been measured through the Law (Rom 3:20 i.e. “through the Law comes the knowledge of sin”) but all have transgressed the Law (Rom 3:19). Thus, “There is none righteous, not even one” (Rom 3:10). 

  That verse is taken out of context. Obviously, there are many who are righteous. St. Paul is referring to the unfaithful and unbelieving people. The are not righteous. But Scripture refers to many who are righteous. Just one example:
  

  Luke 1:6
  King James Version (KJV)
  6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. 

  Therefore, unless you make Scripture contradict itself, St. Paul is speaking about the wicked people who do not believe in God and disobey His Commandments willfully.
  

  Regards, Lutero 

  And to you,
  
  Sincerely,
  
  De Maria

Hi Lutero,you said:I have been raised a “Roman” Catholic. I have memorized the The Commandments and learned to lead the Rosary even before I was 6 years old. I learned Novena when I was in sixth Grade. My mother and I performed the devotion of Mary every Wednesday and also do Station of the Cross on the last Friday of each month. I have 2 uncles who are priests and worked at the Church every free time I have. I also stop by in the Prayer room to pray the Rosary every Friday of the week during High School. But I was born again and became a “born-again” Christian after experiencing the love of Jesus personally when I was in college. But I still have one question that even my priest uncles haven’t given me a convincing answer.

I fell away from the Church to atheism when I was around 13 years old. It took about 15 years for me to be open to hearing the truth from the Catholic Church. Scripture tells us plainly:
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you fell away from the Catholic Church as a result of being “born again”, you weren’t born again in the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God does not lead anyone away from the Church of Jesus Christ (1 Tim 3:15; Eph 3:10).

When you are ready to listen to the truth, the Catholic answers will make sense to you.

Question: Why does the second commandment “thou shall not make any graven images..” in the Bible is omitted in the Catholic teaching

Answer: It isn’t. It is right there. Perhaps you missed it:
CCC article 1:
ARTICLE 1
THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.

and then divide the 10th into two parts.

You are confused because Protestants took the Jewish division rather than the Christian division. You would think that the Jews had divided the Commandments into 10 statements before the Christians. But, you would be wrong. The first person to enumerate the Commandments was St. Augustine in the 3rd Century. That is the division we have today in the Christian Church.

The Jews, in rebellion to Christ, made a different enumeration. The Protestants, in rebellion of God’s Church, took the Jewish division as their own.

The Catholic Church has the first and most logical enumeration of the Ten Commandments.

Most answers I get is that this is not the second, this is part of the 1st.

That is true.

But its very clear the first and this 2nd have a different subject.

You want the second to be about condemning all graven images for any reason because you follow the errors of the Protestants. However, St. Augustine knew that God had commanded the Jews to make graven images of Cherubim (Exodus 25:18) and a bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9). And therefore, that enumeration which you prefer forces the Word of God to contradict itself.

When Catholic says its the same (even if its not), how were the able divide 9th and 10th and say its different when both contain the key phrase “Thou shall not covet…”? which means the same. I checked this with my parents Catholic Bibles (1 is very old twice the size of an Encyclopedia and has sketches/drawings on it) and the 10 commandments are properly indented and the 2nd is “Thou shall not make any graven images…” and the “Thou shall not covet….” is only one indent. This is also the same in my Christian Bible (w/o Deuterocanonicals). So why is this?

If you read the 9 and 10th Commandments, you will find that there are several things which one should not covet. The Protestant division equates a wife and a man’s house and other possessions. As though women were objects.

The Catholic division takes into account that wives “are one flesh” with their husbands (Genesis 2:24). Therefore, coveting a wife is on a different order than coveting a non-human object. Therefore, the Augustinian enumeration of the Commandments is far superior to the Jewish and Protestant version.

Sincerely,

De Maria